The very many questions-not-worth-their-own-thread question thread XXXI

Status
Not open for further replies.
Has anyone here used Rosetta Stone? What level of fluency can you expect after completing three levels (which is where most of their languages end)? I can't find that in any review.

As far as language software goes, it is very very good. But it's important to keep a few things in mind. Firstly that there's no singular language-learning heuristic. Any one thing you opt for will not get you to fluency, and will need to be combined with free reading, watching/listening programs and regular correspondence with pen pals, if not outright immersion. Secondly the efficacity of any language is inherently dependent on the amount and quality of effort you put into it. Language learning is hard. If you're at all serious about acquiring fluency in the language you're looking at 1-2 hours of practice per day for 7+ years. There are no short cuts in this. Anybody telling you they have a shortcut is lying and probably trying to swindle you out of money. This goes for Rosetta Stone too. Don't drop the $600 dollars on Rosetta Stone unless you are absolutely serious about pursuing the language.
 
As far as language software goes, it is very very good.

Really? I don't think it's very good at all. There are just so few Hebrew resources out there that I'm getting desperate. (Duolingo started out great but it got really awful halfway in.)

Firstly that there's no singular language-learning heuristic.

I didn't say there was. I just want a rough estimate of how well I'll know the language after I'm done.

Any one thing you opt for will not get you to fluency, and will need to be combined with free reading, watching/listening programs and regular correspondence with pen pals, if not outright immersion.

I live in Israel, so yeah. The biggest problem is conjugation. In English, "run" can become "running" or "ran" but in Hebrew each word has something like ten permutations. It's a total nightmare.

Secondly the efficacity of any language is inherently dependent on the amount and quality of effort you put into it. Language learning is hard. If you're at all serious about acquiring fluency in the language you're looking at 1-2 hours of practice per day for 7+ years.

I got through one-twelfth of the entire Hebrew course yesterday, and I'm aiming for the same today.

Don't drop the $600 dollars on Rosetta Stone unless you are absolutely serious about pursuing the language.

I'm using it on a friend's computer, actually. When I do Spanish or German I'm staying the heck away from paid software.
 
Last edited:
They're short, bladed, slashing weapons, but they're also pretty heavy and short-range.
 
well like
some swords are pretty short range

I've also heard about execution swords that are really heavy, and might not even be considered a weapon

I'm sorry to querulate or whatever
 
Really? I don't think it's very good at all.

Then why are you asking?

(Duolingo started out great but it got really awful halfway in.)

What about it became awful?

I didn't say there was. I just want a rough estimate of how well I'll know the language after I'm done.

You'll know the grammar. You'll have a dictionary of maybe 1000-1500 words. You'll be able to see and read basic things, but more complex stuff will be difficult for you to get through. Essentially you'll get to the same place you would if you made it through 2 years or so of formal language education in a classroom setting. But that's after using the software for a year to a year-and-a-half. As I said: there is no cheat. There is no workaround. I've now been learning Spanish for 12 years, including 6 years of formal classroom education, multiple years of everyday program watching, and 4-5 years of being in settings that require me to converse in the language every day conversationally. I'd say I'm only just now arriving at a point where I'd be comfortable calling myself fluent.

I live in Israel, so yeah. The biggest problem is conjugation. In English, "run" can become "running" or "ran" but in Hebrew each word has something like ten permutations. It's a total nightmare.

Bah. A prepositional language with mostly rigid SVO word order, no case system, a relatively basic subjunctive, and no simple/progressive aspect distinction(?). I'm not saying Hebrew isn't a difficult language, nor an uncomplex one. All languages are equally complex, because all languages exist to fulfill the same essential function. But it seems to me to not be such a morphologically complex language compared to some of the more intensely inflected synthetic languages like Latin, Ancient Greek, Old English, or Sanskrit. That usually means that the complexity is passed off elsewhere though. English has also lost a lot of its morphological complexity, but that means that the complexity was handed off to other parts of the language. In particular there is a great deal of subtlety and nuance in its use of preposition, word order, accent, particles, and modal/auxiliary verbs to help account for its loss of a robust case system and conjugational forms. From the looks of it, Hebrew is much the same.


I got through one-twelfth of the entire Hebrew course yesterday, and I'm aiming for the same today.

If you're having such a hard time with conjugations, why are you moving so quickly? It's not a race. Better to make sure you have everything down really solidly than to move on and not let the concepts sink in adequately. Remember that the key to language acquisition is regular practice. 5 hours on Monday and nothing for the rest of the week is really not going to help you very much. Everyday practice, even if it's just for 30 minutes a day, is going to help you far more in the long term. There is no cheat for this principle. This is one of the things Duolingo does particularly well, and one of the reasons I would still recommend it despite the problems I have with its teaching philosophy. Its game-ified system encourages and rewards regular interaction. And regular interaction and practice, no matter the type or quality, is the single most important aspect of language acquisition.

I'm using it on a friend's computer, actually. When I do Spanish or German I'm staying the heck away from paid software.

why?
 
Do machetes count as swords?

Wiki lists them in the article about swords, and the definition of a slashing/thrusting weapon with a blade pretty much fits.
A rapier apparently also counts as a sword, and the machete actually comes closer to what you'd imagine to be a sword than a rapier does.
 
Sword is a general descriptor like 'car' is. A hatchback and a pickup are both cars but they're very different from one another (while achieving the same general goal).

"He picked up the sword," is a valid way to describe a saber, or a rapier, or a machete, or whichever other variant you can think of. It is, of course, better to be accurate.
 
A rapier apparently also counts as a sword, and the machete actually comes closer to what you'd imagine to be a sword than a rapier does.

A rapier is a metal thing you stab in people during fights and is a classic fighting weapon: machetes not so much.
 
Machetes are primarily an agricultural implement, aren't they? And swords, unlike axes or knives, are weapons by definition.
 
A machete is something you might use in the production of food or something useful. A sword is something some effeminate puffball wanders around with to make up for the lack of, ehm, wait, family friendly. Right.
 
Then why are you asking?

Why wouldn't I? I'm frustrated at getting so little return on my investments.

What about it became awful?

The lessons consist of a number of pre-generated problems. If you miss one you come back to it. The lesson ends when you complete them all. Do you not see a problem with this sort of repetition? I've also seen the exact same problems return on "refresher" lessons, which is completely pathetic since they are all machine-generated anyway. There are also no translations or lists because the idiots who designed it subscribe to the "learn like an infant" bullcrap that plagues language learning (Google Translate has dramatically accelerated my progress on Rosetta Stone). This also means that I don't get the root words first; I have to figure them out through all the conjugations.

The gamification is clearly nonsense. There's zero variation - the entire thing consists of slogging through level after level. Why not throw in an actual story to read or something more interesting at checkpoints? You know, actually feel like you accomplished something? But the thing that really killed it for me was the utter insanity of word selection. Maybe that's a consequence of Hebrew being in beta, but I was definitely not learning from a list of the thousand most common words here.

Aside from all that, it fit my reading/writing learning style perfectly in the beginning and I had probably doubled my vocabulary (as well as reduced my need for diacritics) by the time I quit.

You'll know the grammar. You'll have a dictionary of maybe 1000-1500 words. You'll be able to see and read basic things, but more complex stuff will be difficult for you to get through. Essentially you'll get to the same place you would if you made it through 2 years or so of formal language education in a classroom setting. But that's after using the software for a year to a year-and-a-half. As I said: there is no cheat. There is no workaround. I've now been learning Spanish for 12 years, including 6 years of formal classroom education, multiple years of everyday program watching, and 4-5 years of being in settings that require me to converse in the language every day conversationally. I'd say I'm only just now arriving at a point where I'd be comfortable calling myself fluent.

I don't want to push you down here... but I get the feeling that you have not been learning in an optimal fashion. That's definitely not what you should expect from a language like Spanish. Maybe take this test and compare the results to how you've been studying?

(Pro-tip: I've stayed briefly in wi-fi-less environments where I could only speak Hebrew and the distance between that and "having daily conversations" can be measured in light-years. Removing your ability to communicate in English is invaluable. It's not something I can do right now, but when the opportunity arises...)

Bah. A prepositional language with mostly rigid SVO word order, no case system, a relatively basic subjunctive, and no simple/progressive aspect distinction(?). I'm not saying Hebrew isn't a difficult language, nor an uncomplex one. All languages are equally complex, because all languages exist to fulfill the same essential function. But it seems to me to not be such a morphologically complex language compared to some of the more intensely inflected synthetic languages like Latin, Ancient Greek, Old English, or Sanskrit. That usually means that the complexity is passed off elsewhere though. English has also lost a lot of its morphological complexity, but that means that the complexity was handed off to other parts of the language. In particular there is a great deal of subtlety and nuance in its use of preposition, word order, accent, particles, and modal/auxiliary verbs to help account for its loss of a robust case system and conjugational forms. From the looks of it, Hebrew is much the same.

Er... okay? I didn't understand most of that. All I'm saying is that you could scrap grammatical gender and plural verbs without losing a whole lot. And then there are the diacritics, which aren't used in anything outside low-level learning environments, so forget reading a paper.

If you're having such a hard time with conjugations, why are you moving so quickly? It's not a race.

Not all of us learn languages for fun. I can't expand my social circle outside English speakers, can't get a number of jobs, get held up with everything I do, etc.

This is one of the things Duolingo does particularly well, and one of the reasons I would still recommend it despite the problems I have with its teaching philosophy. Its game-ified system encourages and rewards regular interaction.

:snowlaugh::snowlaugh::snowlaugh::snowlaugh::snowlaugh::snowlaugh::snowlaugh::snowlaugh::snowlaugh:

After the initial rush I started binging on Duolingo for two or three days at a time (racking about 400-600 XP each day) and than abandoned it for weeks. Consistency is definitely not something I associate with it.


Because it isn't necessary. Between free apps and Paradox games I think I'm probably set, but even if I'm wrong there are an incredible amount of programs and websites I can use. Hebrew is only a problem because of the scarcity of learning resources and how it uses diacritics.
 
Last edited:
machetes are machetes, swords are swords.


Machete:

latest


Cutlass:

attachment.php




We report, you decide.
 
Right, but swords can also look like this:

ribbed-shell-swept-hilt-rapier-88chr-full-1.jpg


So the shape of the blade can't be the deciding factor, else everything with an edge and a handle would count as a sword. The distinction has to be made on cultural and historical grounds, on what the blades that people identified as "swords" were used for and how they were understood in relation to other bladed implements.
 
I mean, there's a reason nobody calls machetes swords. And the reason is that they're machetes. As purported previously, they are tools, not weapons.

Machete:Sword::Knife:Dagger
 
Yeah, but if something is to all intents interchangeable with another thing, then they both fit within the definition. A cutlass may be primarily a weapon, but it is made in such a way as to do double duty as a tool. A machete may be primarily a tool, but is made in such a way as to do double duty as a weapon. And there's actually minimal difference in size, construction, and design between the two. Machetes have been used as weapons on many of an occasion. Or at least used to butcher people, if not for dueling with the similarly armed.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom