Third time lucky
- Thread starter mystyfly
- Start date
Oops. 
Sorry, guys. I've been busy. If lymond can take it, I'll get back in after.
Sorry, guys. I've been busy. If lymond can take it, I'll get back in after.
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go it. first of all, a quick dotmap to determine help foster discussion on where we want to settle next:
Near the purple spot, Iz has a settler with that chariot that I assume will settle on the tundra tile 1SW of her position. Purple city is no stellar city, but the overlap with other cities can help work cottages if we go that route and we can chop a wb out quickly. The blue fish city seems another obvious choice and we could settle 1W of the X, but I'm think we might have another spot that I marked just west of there near the peaks, if we find seafood. The area to the west seems to have a dearth of resources, so we are going to have to kinda make do with what we have.
For teching: Should we go ahead and get Fishing. This would not be needed if we settle the purple city(or actually it might if we want that WB) Otherwise, just push towards Aesths. If Aesths, I think we should start running binary perhaps and when Istanbul grows next turn, I will start running 2 scientists. If we settle fish city, it can use the horses or sheep to get started and get out a WB or monument asap.
Other things:
1) Finish road to Iz and then put a chop into the Library in Edirne
2) Although we probably should have put a mon in Ankara, with the granary finishing this turn, I think we can 2 pop the Library very soon and the borders should pop in time to prevent any ideas Iz might have. The Library whip could go into our next settler and then perhaps grow back with a barracks or chariot. Then finish settler
3) Should we start cottages in Ankara or Edirne or just focus strictly on food and specialists?
4) I'll get another worker or two out as well, possible with a chop. Maybe Instanbul can focus on that as it tries to get us some GSs.
5) I will continue to monitor the situation with Iz and JC, looking for opportunities
6) If we get a WB out this TS, do we head East or West with it? I'm assuming West and North to find JC.
7) I will scout out the SW
Definitely let me know if there are things I'm missing or should focus on this TS. I'm assuming we will start to want to get our first GS soon and possible run more scientists in other cities when they grow back.
edit: bbp, if you stop by, feel free to take this TS over if you want
Spoiler :
Near the purple spot, Iz has a settler with that chariot that I assume will settle on the tundra tile 1SW of her position. Purple city is no stellar city, but the overlap with other cities can help work cottages if we go that route and we can chop a wb out quickly. The blue fish city seems another obvious choice and we could settle 1W of the X, but I'm think we might have another spot that I marked just west of there near the peaks, if we find seafood. The area to the west seems to have a dearth of resources, so we are going to have to kinda make do with what we have.
For teching: Should we go ahead and get Fishing. This would not be needed if we settle the purple city(or actually it might if we want that WB) Otherwise, just push towards Aesths. If Aesths, I think we should start running binary perhaps and when Istanbul grows next turn, I will start running 2 scientists. If we settle fish city, it can use the horses or sheep to get started and get out a WB or monument asap.
Other things:
1) Finish road to Iz and then put a chop into the Library in Edirne
2) Although we probably should have put a mon in Ankara, with the granary finishing this turn, I think we can 2 pop the Library very soon and the borders should pop in time to prevent any ideas Iz might have. The Library whip could go into our next settler and then perhaps grow back with a barracks or chariot. Then finish settler
3) Should we start cottages in Ankara or Edirne or just focus strictly on food and specialists?
4) I'll get another worker or two out as well, possible with a chop. Maybe Instanbul can focus on that as it tries to get us some GSs.
5) I will continue to monitor the situation with Iz and JC, looking for opportunities
6) If we get a WB out this TS, do we head East or West with it? I'm assuming West and North to find JC.
7) I will scout out the SW
Definitely let me know if there are things I'm missing or should focus on this TS. I'm assuming we will start to want to get our first GS soon and possible run more scientists in other cities when they grow back.
edit: bbp, if you stop by, feel free to take this TS over if you want
Most of that was already discussed. I'm not sure I remember everything correctly but I think we covered this before. Scout west and try to find a good spot for GPFarm if available. That purple spot just steals the little food istanbul has, not a good idea. Istanbul focuses on settler pump.
Our next few cities should all go to the west, imo. Fish city is just a filler and will not significantly contribute to our empire for now. Sure it can steal tiles from Istanbul, but it's not like we're not using them there. We should settle it at some point, but for now, it's important to get the most out of every settler. I'd suggest heading west with the settler while scouting the spices/wheat/incense area to find a good spot. That city should be coastal, so we need Fishing for a WB.
We need Math. We want to settle the west before Izzy goes there or JC comes down from the north. That's a lot of settlers and workers, so the 50% chop bonus will help a lot. In addition, we'll get the hammam, which will be excellent for Istanbul right away and helpful in the other two cities as well.
Aesthetics or any other trading chip imo is currently less important. JC and Izzy are no big techers and we can only focus on one thing at a time - expand or tech. Expansion is far more important at this point.
1) I doubt we will need any chops for libraries. Both Ankara and Edirne can grow like weeds with the granary in place, a 3-pop whip should be no problem. Better get some more farms up to support their growth.
2) Ankara and Edirne are less suitable for settler production since the 50% bonus only counts towards hammers. We can 3-pop whip them there, but preferably not build. We need some more warriors for MP, those can be useful builds while growing.
3) No cottages imo. Get the food up, perma-run 2 scientists, whip a settler or worker when they grow too large.
4) Don't run any specialists in Istanbul. We have two high-food cities that will get up libraries very quickly and can permanently run 2 scientists. Istanbul is our production center and we need that for settlers/workers/units. We should try to keep our cities somewhat specialized rather than doing a bit of everything everywhere.
6) If we settle to the west and get a WB there, head north. We can scout the SW coast with chariots.
We need Math. We want to settle the west before Izzy goes there or JC comes down from the north. That's a lot of settlers and workers, so the 50% chop bonus will help a lot. In addition, we'll get the hammam, which will be excellent for Istanbul right away and helpful in the other two cities as well.
Aesthetics or any other trading chip imo is currently less important. JC and Izzy are no big techers and we can only focus on one thing at a time - expand or tech. Expansion is far more important at this point.
1) I doubt we will need any chops for libraries. Both Ankara and Edirne can grow like weeds with the granary in place, a 3-pop whip should be no problem. Better get some more farms up to support their growth.
2) Ankara and Edirne are less suitable for settler production since the 50% bonus only counts towards hammers. We can 3-pop whip them there, but preferably not build. We need some more warriors for MP, those can be useful builds while growing.
3) No cottages imo. Get the food up, perma-run 2 scientists, whip a settler or worker when they grow too large.
4) Don't run any specialists in Istanbul. We have two high-food cities that will get up libraries very quickly and can permanently run 2 scientists. Istanbul is our production center and we need that for settlers/workers/units. We should try to keep our cities somewhat specialized rather than doing a bit of everything everywhere.
6) If we settle to the west and get a WB there, head north. We can scout the SW coast with chariots.
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TS played:
Nothing eventful this TS other than the fact that Iz went into fist mode toward the end. I would think we are certainly the target. The main issue being that we don't have metals and she does.
Finished 2 settlers in Istanbul - the 2nd finishing on the last turn with movement, so we can decide on where to put him. Also, got a worker out in Istanbul and started one in Ankara after the Library whip (put hammers into a barracks which already had hammers). 3popped the Library in Ankara which grows really fast and was very soon able to run 2 scientists there.
2 popped Lib in Edirne which completed a Barracks in 1 turn and now Edirne is running 2 scientists as well. Next player needs to adjust timing of whip anger and the builds/citizen in Ankara/Edirne so they can grow. Edirne can start growing again in 2 turns and Ankara in a few - or just finish the worker there and grow back. Regardless we may be whipping units anyway though out of necessity.
I settled Bursa in what I thought was a "relative" decent spot to the west after I scouted it. Not great but should be pretty good early production. However, it is not coastal so I think we definitely need to settle the coast next. (Honestly, I would have just settled the fish city south, but oh well)
I sent a chariot back NW to check out the barb city, as I saw a Spanish chariot heading up there as well. In the process, I revealed a fish resource up there that I don't think was revealed before. Not a great city but decent and we might consider making that our next city. It will have 2 hills and a floodplains, plus other river tiles. (you can see the fish in the pic below labeled Northwest)
Techs: Finished Masonry. Went ahead and grabbed Fishing in 2ts as I think we are going to want it sooner rather than later. Then ran binary on Aeths for a while before upping the slider. AIs don't have Alpha yet.
soooooo....I think I managed things ok. Not sure whether folks will like Bursa or not, but the land over there is pretty meager and the lack of seafood over there is just plain suckitude. Hopefully, we find some food in the sea in that last bit of fog.
Sorry, meant to bust that last bit of fog over in the West, but that SW chariot had to kill a barb and keep Bursa protected, as I brought more chariots over from the east.
Southwest:
Northwest:
Cross our fingers that Iz asks us to switch to her Religion or demands something.
Nothing eventful this TS other than the fact that Iz went into fist mode toward the end. I would think we are certainly the target. The main issue being that we don't have metals and she does.
Finished 2 settlers in Istanbul - the 2nd finishing on the last turn with movement, so we can decide on where to put him. Also, got a worker out in Istanbul and started one in Ankara after the Library whip (put hammers into a barracks which already had hammers). 3popped the Library in Ankara which grows really fast and was very soon able to run 2 scientists there.
2 popped Lib in Edirne which completed a Barracks in 1 turn and now Edirne is running 2 scientists as well. Next player needs to adjust timing of whip anger and the builds/citizen in Ankara/Edirne so they can grow. Edirne can start growing again in 2 turns and Ankara in a few - or just finish the worker there and grow back. Regardless we may be whipping units anyway though out of necessity.
I settled Bursa in what I thought was a "relative" decent spot to the west after I scouted it. Not great but should be pretty good early production. However, it is not coastal so I think we definitely need to settle the coast next. (Honestly, I would have just settled the fish city south, but oh well)
I sent a chariot back NW to check out the barb city, as I saw a Spanish chariot heading up there as well. In the process, I revealed a fish resource up there that I don't think was revealed before. Not a great city but decent and we might consider making that our next city. It will have 2 hills and a floodplains, plus other river tiles. (you can see the fish in the pic below labeled Northwest)
Techs: Finished Masonry. Went ahead and grabbed Fishing in 2ts as I think we are going to want it sooner rather than later. Then ran binary on Aeths for a while before upping the slider. AIs don't have Alpha yet.
soooooo....I think I managed things ok. Not sure whether folks will like Bursa or not, but the land over there is pretty meager and the lack of seafood over there is just plain suckitude. Hopefully, we find some food in the sea in that last bit of fog.
Sorry, meant to bust that last bit of fog over in the West, but that SW chariot had to kill a barb and keep Bursa protected, as I brought more chariots over from the east.
Southwest:
Spoiler :
Northwest:
Spoiler :
Cross our fingers that Iz asks us to switch to her Religion or demands something.
Save?
shyuhe
Deity
Let's tech archery and hide behind walls in Edirne. Izzy is almost 100% after us and we have no excuse dying to a dow at this point since it's not a dagger declaration. We should whip in Edirne and fire those scientists.
Agreed. With walls and a bunch of archers we should be ok, plus the high food allows us to whip one practically whenever we need. We should get Hunting->Archery right away.
I don't think there's any need to continue Aesthetics. Nobody has Alpha and we were even the first to Writing back then so it might still be a while. Better go for Math for the chops and hammams, then maybe follow up with Construction for cats.
Why are we irrigating a grassland at Edirne when there's an unirrigated floodplain left? Why are we irrigating at all when we already have an unused but irrigated FP but stone isn't hooked up yet? That should be canceled immediately and the worker moved to hook up the stone.
I don't get why there's a farm on the wine plains at Istanbul. We should have mined the hill where the worker is now right away. 2/1/2 is a pretty average tile yield and Istanbul has enough food anyway.
Why does Bursa need a monument? I don't see anything worthwhile in the second ring. Better switch to something useful, e.g. a granary.
I'd switch Ankara back to the barracks that are already queued. We can work the plains forest instead of the rice for a turn or two to get more hammers in and delay growth until the whip anger goes away. Then start on an archer. Some more roads would be nice to have, but we don't have any spare workers and I'd rather spend the hammers on military now.
So far there's no need to start the walls in Edirne, chariots don't benefit from them and warriors can't defend us anyway. We can finish the chariot there, then build an archer until the stone is hooked up.
Should we switch to Buddhism even without Izzy asking us? It's one
in our 3 main cities, each of which can use it well.
The western chariot is almost healed, he could head north along the coast before pressing enter to see if there's any fish west of spice. Maybe we could briefly stop for discussion of the next city site after we know more. The settler can already head west in the meantime. Imo the best sites would be SE of wheat (if no seafood) or NW/NWW of wheat if anything shows up.
The northernmost chariot should head back immediately for defend duty. We might recall the one south of it as well after we settle, one chariot and the new city should provide enough cover and we need the military in the east.
I don't think there's any need to continue Aesthetics. Nobody has Alpha and we were even the first to Writing back then so it might still be a while. Better go for Math for the chops and hammams, then maybe follow up with Construction for cats.
Why are we irrigating a grassland at Edirne when there's an unirrigated floodplain left? Why are we irrigating at all when we already have an unused but irrigated FP but stone isn't hooked up yet? That should be canceled immediately and the worker moved to hook up the stone.
I don't get why there's a farm on the wine plains at Istanbul. We should have mined the hill where the worker is now right away. 2/1/2 is a pretty average tile yield and Istanbul has enough food anyway.
Why does Bursa need a monument? I don't see anything worthwhile in the second ring. Better switch to something useful, e.g. a granary.
I'd switch Ankara back to the barracks that are already queued. We can work the plains forest instead of the rice for a turn or two to get more hammers in and delay growth until the whip anger goes away. Then start on an archer. Some more roads would be nice to have, but we don't have any spare workers and I'd rather spend the hammers on military now.
So far there's no need to start the walls in Edirne, chariots don't benefit from them and warriors can't defend us anyway. We can finish the chariot there, then build an archer until the stone is hooked up.
Should we switch to Buddhism even without Izzy asking us? It's one
in our 3 main cities, each of which can use it well.The western chariot is almost healed, he could head north along the coast before pressing enter to see if there's any fish west of spice. Maybe we could briefly stop for discussion of the next city site after we know more. The settler can already head west in the meantime. Imo the best sites would be SE of wheat (if no seafood) or NW/NWW of wheat if anything shows up.
The northernmost chariot should head back immediately for defend duty. We might recall the one south of it as well after we settle, one chariot and the new city should provide enough cover and we need the military in the east.
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I like the farmed wine for the extra commerce and since Istanbul is/was mainly build food units, the difference between that tile and a mine is about the same, except extra commerce. At the time I was not concerned about war possibilities.
I like the wheat site you mentioned as well, but I would not rule out the Fish site up north either.
i agree that the monument in Bursa may not be needed. We haven't put much into it anyway. I often go straight to grans myself if a border pop is not urgent.
At this point, I don't think the Bud switch is going to have any effect on Iz's decision to declare or not.
I did not improve Stone as Iz had units popping back and forth up there so if she DOW'd we might lose the worker. I also didn't think stone was that urgent for us but in hindsight the extra production would be handy in war. However, probably much of our production will be food based anyway. As for not improving the FP, it was just a matter of where the worker was at that time. It's not a big deal based on current city size limitation and the fact that Edirne was prioritizing specialists.
I like the wheat site you mentioned as well, but I would not rule out the Fish site up north either.
i agree that the monument in Bursa may not be needed. We haven't put much into it anyway. I often go straight to grans myself if a border pop is not urgent.
At this point, I don't think the Bud switch is going to have any effect on Iz's decision to declare or not.
I did not improve Stone as Iz had units popping back and forth up there so if she DOW'd we might lose the worker. I also didn't think stone was that urgent for us but in hindsight the extra production would be handy in war. However, probably much of our production will be food based anyway. As for not improving the FP, it was just a matter of where the worker was at that time. It's not a big deal based on current city size limitation and the fact that Edirne was prioritizing specialists.
shyuhe
Deity
I'm inclined to stack whip anger in Edirne to get archers up. Can we send a chariot to scout Izzy for a SoD? It'll give us some lead time on a war declaration.
Yeah, switch to Hunting-Archery right away and hook up stone.
We should fire some scientists, but make sure it doesn't slow down Archery.
I'd build another warrior at least, so we don't have to use chariots for MP.
We could also stick the current settler north of Ankara for a peace gift. I don't like that too much, since we're kinda behind on expansion.
Finishing Aesthetics after Archery seems fine to me.
I would've put EP on Izzy earlier to see research. It's not too far off as is.
Sending the western chariot up this turn to look for seafood around wheat sounds good. We do want one going into Spain, as well. Which one?
We should fire some scientists, but make sure it doesn't slow down Archery.
I'd build another warrior at least, so we don't have to use chariots for MP.
We could also stick the current settler north of Ankara for a peace gift. I don't like that too much, since we're kinda behind on expansion.
Finishing Aesthetics after Archery seems fine to me.
I would've put EP on Izzy earlier to see research. It's not too far off as is.
Sending the western chariot up this turn to look for seafood around wheat sounds good. We do want one going into Spain, as well. Which one?
@Talamane: Links should be in first post of this and last SG. They were called "Just another SG" and "us again".
@Lymond: I'm afraid I don't have the time for proper commenting, but that set was discussed thoroughly after the last one was played IIRC (though we assumed then that bbp was going to play). I must say I dont like bursa at all, all it offers is unirrigated wheat that is just a little bit better than unirrigated rice imo, and that's not much. I'd even prefer that desert-fish site as it has more food surplus and is coastal.
As to techs, I think we agreed (back then) to maths > currency for the TRs and building wealth to support our REXing. With just 2 AIs aesth doesn't offer much, especially with one of them in war mode. Speaking of that, was JC izzy's WE the turn she entered war mode? Could be as they have different religions, maybe we're not the target after all. A recon chariot in her lands would be very handy to monitor unit movement and predict where and when an eventual attack will occur.
I don't mean to just moan around but I can't offer anything more productive atm, I'm sorry. I just read the report and looked at those pics.
@Lymond: I'm afraid I don't have the time for proper commenting, but that set was discussed thoroughly after the last one was played IIRC (though we assumed then that bbp was going to play). I must say I dont like bursa at all, all it offers is unirrigated wheat that is just a little bit better than unirrigated rice imo, and that's not much. I'd even prefer that desert-fish site as it has more food surplus and is coastal.
As to techs, I think we agreed (back then) to maths > currency for the TRs and building wealth to support our REXing. With just 2 AIs aesth doesn't offer much, especially with one of them in war mode. Speaking of that, was JC izzy's WE the turn she entered war mode? Could be as they have different religions, maybe we're not the target after all. A recon chariot in her lands would be very handy to monitor unit movement and predict where and when an eventual attack will occur.
I don't mean to just moan around but I can't offer anything more productive atm, I'm sorry. I just read the report and looked at those pics.
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@mysty - Well, I did not know about the fish city when I settled Bursa. It was the best city in the west at the time and everyone seemed to want to settle somewhere in the west. Personally, I would have just settled the fish city below Istanbul as I suggested and work on getting out a WB. You may not like Bursa, but less the unknown at the time fish city up north, there really isn't much to be excited about in the west. Bursa is not great but is will make a decent production city early and late. I'd really like to know where you would have settle with the same info I had.
I don't recall JC being Iz's WE but I'm not sure it matters. I think we have to assume she is targeting us due to power and neighbor demerits. Again, Edirne's location was not the best idea. I agree a chariot in her direction would be nice, but until she went into fist mode a couple of turns ago, I had pulled chariots west to scout and spawnbust which I thought was more important and did queue up new chariots.
I do apologize for disconnecting on the tech plan though. Not sure how I missed it, but I did not get much feedback at all on the ppp after waiting a couple of days.
I don't recall JC being Iz's WE but I'm not sure it matters. I think we have to assume she is targeting us due to power and neighbor demerits. Again, Edirne's location was not the best idea. I agree a chariot in her direction would be nice, but until she went into fist mode a couple of turns ago, I had pulled chariots west to scout and spawnbust which I thought was more important and did queue up new chariots.
I do apologize for disconnecting on the tech plan though. Not sure how I missed it, but I did not get much feedback at all on the ppp after waiting a couple of days.
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