Yeah, there's no real difference.
Please ignore the gentleman above this post, that's a disgusting concoction.
TIL: Today I Learned
- Thread starter Cutlass
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Yeah, there's no real difference.
Please ignore the gentleman above this post, that's a disgusting concoction.
Are you saying these horrible things because I'm making Hygro your Potentate?
Meh. It's neither horrible nor some nectar of the Gods.
Did not notice that and even had to look it up to make sure I wasn't missing some secret meaning.
Man, it's late.
But I'm just enjoying a decent state rivalry that really oughta exist (Misery-Massholistan would be legendary) and because it gets a rise out of particularly nationalistic state residents.
Man, it's late.
But I'm just enjoying a decent state rivalry that really oughta exist (Misery-Massholistan would be legendary) and because it gets a rise out of particularly nationalistic state residents.
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
Bow before your potentate, rabble rouser 
"The Church" being what? If by Synod you are referring to the Missouri Synod, then sure, that's fine.
(by the by, did you just experience a TIL about the Missouri Synod moment?)
(by the by, did you just experience a TIL about the Missouri Synod moment?)
TIL the RL Lutherans who oppose organised churches not only have turned to monarchy and state-churches as their basis for survival (Scandinavia, Netherlands, etc.) but also have Synods just like our Pope did a couple of weeks ago.
Anyway, 'The Church'* is currently headed by Patriarch Kyriakos and will anoint anyone as long as there is agreement. No fight over investitures, really.
*which accepts donations in exchange for favours, and it doesn't count as bribery, please speak with Exarch Takhisios
Anyway, 'The Church'* is currently headed by Patriarch Kyriakos and will anoint anyone as long as there is agreement. No fight over investitures, really.
*which accepts donations in exchange for favours, and it doesn't count as bribery, please speak with Exarch Takhisios
madviking
north american scum
yea except they've been on a decline.
Phrossack
Armored Fish and Armored Men
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TIL that the Spanish government was rather upset with Coronado and Oñate for what those conquistadors did to Indians during their expeditions, and brought them to court over it. Granted, they weren't exactly harshly punished by modern standards, especially considering all the people they killed, but I was surprised to find that the monarchy was bothered by reports of conquistador abuses. I'd always thought that the government would have been pleased to hear tales of Spanish explorers crushing pagan resistance.
I also learned that some of the mail shirts brought with the Coronado expedition fell into the hands of various Indians, and some even turned up over three centuries later, still worn by various chiefs.
I also learned that some of the mail shirts brought with the Coronado expedition fell into the hands of various Indians, and some even turned up over three centuries later, still worn by various chiefs.
gay_Aleks
from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free!
Wasn't that due to Bartholomew de Casas, who raised some ruckus for Indians, leading to a debate in Valladolid?
cybrxkhan
Asian Xwedodah
Also interesting to note is that Hernando Cortes was technically breaking the law throughout his expedition in Mexico, for instance he defied the orders of the governor of Cuba and even fought against him or something. I think the Spanish government wasn't too happy with him and while they "rewarded" him they were highly distrustful of him and made sure he didn't do anything silly.
I think that's related but not the only cause - though I don't know much about the topic, I think the Spaniards had differing opinions on how to deal with the natives. Though the debate on whether the native Amerindians were people and thus could be saved by conversion is a interesting thing.
It may be interesting to note that some of the Aztec nobility were in fact assimilated into the Spanish nobility - one of Montezuma's grandson (I think) was granted a title (Duke of Montezuma or something) and it is still held today by his descendants.
I think that's related but not the only cause - though I don't know much about the topic, I think the Spaniards had differing opinions on how to deal with the natives. Though the debate on whether the native Amerindians were people and thus could be saved by conversion is a interesting thing.
It may be interesting to note that some of the Aztec nobility were in fact assimilated into the Spanish nobility - one of Montezuma's grandson (I think) was granted a title (Duke of Montezuma or something) and it is still held today by his descendants.
Phrossack
Armored Fish and Armored Men
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I don't know too much about de las Casas, but his arguments seem to have been pretty influential in somewhat reducing oppression of Indians, at least in Spanish legal theory. In practice, lords and conquistadors on the spot routinely ignored these laws, and the government could do little beyond make inquiries and serve a kind of justice after the fact. Though Coronado at least sometimes took efforts to treat the Indians fairly--as fairly as one could expect a treasure-hunting man of war to show an utterly foreign and weaker people, anyway. Obviously he didn't try too hard, or he wouldn't have been summoned to court to answer the accusations of abuse, torture, murder, and other things. Coronado was actually quite a nice guy as far as conquistadors went.
Quite. Cortes was wildly successful, especially beyond anyone's reasonable expectations for what the leader of a small expedition of mostly swordsmen could accomplish in a powerful foreign empire, and he made sure to send Charles V plenty of gifts as a show of his loyalty, success, and potential for great riches. So he got pardoned for invading several countries without permission, though the government was understandably suspicious and declined to let him lead some entradas north into the Southwest.
As far as I can tell by my skimming of several books on the topic, the Spanish saw the Indians as strange and sometimes primitive people, but as virgin soil for conversion. The Spanish generally sought to convert them by peaceful means, and thought it only fair to give the Indians a chance to convert and submit peacefully after issuing the Requerimiento. Of course, the terms of the Requerimiento also allowed force if faced with Indian resistance, , and obviously conquistadors tended to care very little about fair treatment beyond what served their immediate interests. Coronado and Cortes sought to win allies through goodwill and fairness whenever possible, since it made life so much easier, but this wasn't because they were nice, and wasn't necessarily out of a desire to obey the law.
There was a lot of intermarriage between conquistadors and natives, since they brought few Spanish women most of the time. Political marriages also happened; notably, the chronicler Garcilaso de la Vega was the son of a conquistador and an Incan noblewoman.
And hey, thanks for the discussion! It's actually gotten me more motivated to work on my 25-page paper on factors in the success or failure of the conquistadors' expeditions due Wednesday!
SS-18 ICBM
Oscillator
TIL (well, last night, really) MSF instructs the CDC regarding EBOV. Also, just Tylenol and fluids reduce EBOV lethality from 90% to 50%. And interventions available in Western hospitals can reduce that to nearly zero.
Phrossack
Armored Fish and Armored Men
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TIL that the Spanish conquest of the Incas was a lot more complicated than I thought. Cortes took over the Aztecs in a couple of years, but the conquest of the Incas took decades, and involved a lot of civil wars on all sides, periods of peace, intermarriage, and even the establishment of a neo-Incan state that lasted some decades more. At least four Pizarro brothers fought in Peru, and the famous one, Francisco, was assassinated by rival Spaniards. Some of the feuding Spanish even went so far as to assassinate a Viceroy!
Borachio
Way past lunacy
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cybrxkhan
Asian Xwedodah
TIL when Mozart and Marie Antoinette met as kids (during his tour of Europe with his family), legend has it that he crushed on her and tried to propose marriage.
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