TIL: Today I Learned

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TIL: We take for granted the earth takes one year to revolve around the sun, because of gravity. Before humans had a clearer grasp though, they stated the sun took a year of daily rotations around the earth to complete two circles (the two equinoxes). They thought the earth was a fixed "god" and whirling around too fast would not be godlike. That was the men of science, who were reasoning gods out of human thought.

There was the notion of atoms and some theory of gravity, but it seemed they were reasoning god out of the picture instead of into the mix.
 
timtofly said:
TIL: We take for granted the earth takes one year to revolve around the sun, because of gravity.
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Actually, it's because a year is literally defined as the amount of time it takes the earth to revolve once around the sun
 
TIL: We take for granted that the speed of light is exactly 299,792,458 m/s, because of gravity. Before humans had a clearer grasp, they stated the speed of light was 299,792,4562±0.0011 m/s. Those ignorant fools, how could they not know that God preordained the speed of light to be 299,792,458 m/s. Thanks.
 
timtofly said:
They thought the earth was a fixed "god" and whirling around too fast would not be godlike. That was the men of science, who were reasoning gods out of human thought.
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Who, exactly, thought this?
 
The earth wasn't identified as a god, by 'men of science', though. At least i don't know of any greek philosopher (let alone mathematician) who makes such a claim. Gaia (the earth) is a god, in Hesiod's Theogonia, which is a text in theology. The distinction between theology and philosophy is very clear in Greece by the late 7th century BC, given many early philosophers make it and have it as an (albeit not that forefront) reason of existence as writers. Including Xenophanes (early 6th century BC) who attacks theologic views, eg in Homer, and argues that all kinds of races/peoples seem to imagine their own gods in their own form (mentions Thracians having red-haired gods, and sub-Egypt africans -- nor sure if ethiopians or other group -- having black-skinned gods).

A serious division among the two main 'schools' of philosophy in ancient Greece is exactly between philosophers who do often speak of some deity (usually one deity), and those who do not. The former were by the early roman era (eg in the work by Diogenes Laertios, which chronicles philosophy by that time) categorized as 'italiotic' or 'pythagorean', the latter as 'milesian'.
Btw, those philosophers who speak of some god, seem to always speak of something strange and philosophical, eg Parmenides with his perfect sphere/Oneness (also Xenophanes, apparently), Pythagoras with his numbers and number relations and geometry, Plato with his archetype of the Benevolent, etc. They don't speak of Zeus, let alone of the Earth, in that way. Even the more convoluted theories, by Embedocles, feature various forces (groups of primary opposites) and 'eros' and 'strife'.
 
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Well darn, I did own Apolyton before then and we basically gave it away. But I don't feel cheated.
 
Kyriakos said:
The earth wasn't identified as a god, by 'men of science', though. At least i don't know of any greek philosopher (let alone mathematician) who makes such a claim. Gaia (the earth) is a god, in Hesiod's theogonia, which is a text in theology. The distinction between theology and philosophy is very clear in Greece by the late 7th century BC, given many early philosophers make it and have it as an (albeit not that forefront) reason of existence as writers. Including Xenophanes (early 6th century BC) who attacks theologic views, eg in Homer, and argues that all kinds of races/peoples seem to imagine their own gods in their own form (mentions Thracians having red-haired gods, and sub-Egypt africans -- nor sure if ethiopians or other group -- having black-skinned gods.

A serious division among the two main 'schools' of philosophy in ancient Greece is exactly between philosophers who do often speak of some deity (usually one deity), and those who do not. The former were by the early roman era (eg in the work by Diogenes Laertios, which chronicles philosophy by that time) categorized as 'italiotic' or 'pythagorean', the latter as 'milesian'.
Btw, those philosophers who speak of some god, seem to always speak of something strange and philosophical, eg Parmenides with his perfect sphere/Oneness (also Xenophanes, apparently), Pythagoras with his numbers and number relations and geometry, Plato with his archetype of the Benevolent, etc. They don't speak of Zeus, let alone of the Earth, in that way. Even the more convoluted theories, by Embedocles, feature various forces (groups of primary opposites) and 'eros' and 'strife'.
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I realize the exact nature of what they defined. When it comes to reasoning though, the stars were fixed, the earth was fixed. The notion of something at rest and fixed was considered a "god". That they considered the wandering stars (planets) as detached gods, we're perhaps why they separated the Olympians from the Titans. Those ancients before them, ie Sumerians, did not personify the gods, but personified the planets. Once you name a star though, it may be hard to keep using the same names for what they were personifying. However what the population itself passed down from generation to generation may be hard to remove from what some thought should be rejected as a whole.
 
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timtofly said:
I realize the exact nature of what they defined. When it comes to reasoning though, the stars were fixed, the earth was fixed. The notion of something at rest and fixed was considered a "god". That they considered the wandering stars (planets) as detached gods, we're perhaps why they separated the Olympians from the Titans. Those ancients before them, ie Sumerians, did not personify the gods, but personified the planets. Once you name a star though, it may be hard to keep using the same names for what they were personifying.
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I am not sure if all thought the stars were fixed. I am not sure if the (english) term "the firmament" echoes an actual ancient greek term (there is a current greek term meaning that, but it doesn't seem ancient; 'stereoma').
And many early philosophers exactly made observations about the stars and planets. Already (arguably) with Thales, the first philosopher, and certainly with Anaxagoras (who lived in the Athens of Pericles). Also Democritos (of the famous notion of the atom). Eg both of those argued that the stars were fiery cores. They don't call them at all as gods. In theology you would find the Sun (Helios) being an early god, but not in any actual ancient greek philosophy.

Speaking of Anaxagoras, in his time there was a comet sheding part of itself when nearing perihelion (closest point to the Sun). The bit fell somewhere in Thrace, and afaik was said to have become a kind of tourist attraction, even by the time of Aristotle (almost a century later). :) It is argued that it may have been the first recorded pass of the comet named later as 'Halley's comet'. Isti mirant stella.
 
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Not really, I never really bought it as much as assumed the operating expenses and ended up with it. My brother and I got it back to even and then let someone else have it. We never made a dime. I just wanted it to continue and stepped in when it was required. ;)
 
Kyriakos said:
I am not sure if all thought the stars were fixed. I am not sure if the (english) term "the firmament" echoes an actual ancient greek term (there is a current greek term meaning that, but it doesn't seem ancient; 'stereoma').
And many early philosophers exactly made observations about the stars and planets. Already (arguably) with Thales, the first philosopher, and certainly with Anaxagoras (who lived in the Athens of Pericles). Also Democritos (of the famous notion of the atom). Eg both of those argued that the stars were fiery cores. They don't call them at all as gods. In theology you would find the Sun (Helios) being an early god, but not in any actual ancient greek philosophy.
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The English version of the Bible (the KJV) is translated from a combination of Hebrew, Greek, and Latin sources. In Jerome's Vulgate Bible, largely translating from the Greek Septuagint, the term is firmamentum. The Septuagint, whence Jerome formed his Latin translation, uses the phrase στερέωμα (stereoma)
 
Owen Glyndwr said:
The English version of the Bible (the KJV) is translated from a combination of Hebrew, Greek, and Latin sources. In Jerome's Vulgate Bible, largely translating from the Greek Septuagint, the term is firmamentum. The Septuagint, whence Jerome formed his Latin translation, uses the phrase στερέωμα (stereoma)
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Very nice :thumbsup:
Though this certainly doesn't mean that the actual theory at the hellenistic era (not counting the one in the jewish religious text translated to greek there) was of a firmament. Thanks though, this is a TIL for me ^^
 
Well, where blue stops and green begins is always a tough call anyway.
 
Our perception of colour is influenced by our words for various colours. It's all really quite fascinating.
 
And it's a nice clean case of that thing some poster was asking for a few days back: the impact of languages on how we think.

It was when we were talking about so much science being done in English and whether that matters. Gotta track that back down.

OK: SS-18 ICBM over in Dumb and Stupid Quotes.
 
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