Time to Ban Owning Pit Bulls?

[Berzerker]

I've been bitten by a far more substantial list...and it still doesn't include anything like a "pit bull." Fair number of chihuahuas though. Surprising no one wants to ban that vicious breed.

They're not eating people

I haven't seen any indications that he is an alarmist rabbit.

So you think he'll endorse owning pit bulls after watching his wife get eaten by them?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

So you think he'll endorse owning pit bulls after watching his wife get eaten by them?

No, he just hasn't said how every off leash dog he encounters triggers his fight or flight reflex and makes him pump out the stinky fear sweat that makes every dog aggressive.

 

[Berzerker]

Oh, was it his wife who was pumping out that stinky fear sweat? I've never been bitten, you get attacked by Chihuahuas.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Oh, was it his wife who was pumping out that stinky fear sweat? I've never been bitten, you get attacked by Chihuahuas.

For a number of years my profession involved invading yards often occupied by dogs. Goes with the territory. Obviously your inability to deal with dogs as a paperboy would disqualify you.

 

[Berzerker]

Is that when you were attacked by those Chihuahuas?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Is that when you were attacked by those Chihuahuas?

Yeah. I usually thought it wasn't worth the time and effort to keep them in their place, so several of them eventually got around to biting me.

 

[Broken_Erika]

Small dogs bite far more often than larger dogs, the smaller they are, the more likely they are to bite.

 

[Kyriakos]

Small dogs bite far more often than larger dogs, the smaller they are, the more likely they are to bite.

It is known that Chihuahuas are vicious, yet they sort of are very weak too, so they don't pose much of a threat. And afaik they don't tend to roam about either; they are so-called living-room dogs (or some analogous expression in english).
Not that i'd mind if they are banned, or even exterminated; just saying that it isn't that relevant to pitbulls killing or seriously injuring kids or others.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Actually, chihuahuas are very likely to be roaming about. It is much more challenging to provide a yard that will securely contain a chihuahua than most other breeds.

 

[Bamspeedy]

Too much catching up to do, so I'm not going to find all the quotes:

I am pretty sure not that long ago the same argument was presented on a completely different topic that "Just because it is not the biggest problem, doesn't mean we shouldn't do anything about it", or doesn't mean we can't tackle both issues.

Berzerker, I understand the scenario you originally posted of a dangerous dog(s) near a small child. Approaching the situation with a weapon drawn I can understand, but you have to be careful. Someone from a different viewpoint may not see the dogs (obstacles in the way from where they are) and wonder why you are approaching a child with a weapon. I'd make sure your head was also facing the dogs, not just your eyes to make it clear what you are looking at. If the child IS being attacked, obviously you should do something and if they see the child they should see the dogs, but the original scenario didn't make this clear of the proximity of the dogs to the child and that the child was actually being attacked.

Profile of the owner of pitbulls match up (statistically, not an absolute of course) to the profile of the dogs.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...l-characteristics-owners-aggressivedog-breeds
And certainly matches up to what I've seen personally, though this thread and the research I just did alerted me more to what all is included in the 'pitbull class' than what I knew before.

Since 'pit bull' is not a breed, both sides can define 'pit bulls' to mean whatever they want it to mean and spin the stats to their side, whether it be the anti-pitbull people, pitbull owners or the ASPCA (being able to find more homes for these dogs by not having the 'pitbull' reputation attached to them.

There are different breeds that are commonly referred to as from the 'pitbull class' so any legislation aims at those breeds.

Many of the jurisdictions that restrict pit bulls apply their restriction to the modern American Pit Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier, and any other dog that has the substantial physical characteristics and appearance of those breeds.

The study that says only 17% of breeds were able to be identified in DBRF (dog bite related fatalities), doesn't jive with the ASPCA's study that says staff at the Richmond SPCA were able to correctly identify a pitbull (coming from one of the breeds discussed earlier, 96% of the time.

https://www.aspcapro.org/blog/2013/09/25/bully-—-results-are-…

1. But then again, sometimes it could be two different groups of people. People at the human society probably know better about the different breeds of dogs, animal control people are better at judging the weight (without the benefit of a scale) to use the right amount of tranquilizer. In some places these two jobs could be done by the same people, but usually they are not.

2. I don't know what kind of reports animal control needs to fill out from the incidents, so I don't know how accurate the 'breed' needs to be. Some may be lazy and just write in 'mixed'. Some know that 'pitbull' is not a breed so will not write that. Some may not know they are a breed and do write pitbull on that line.

 

[Kyriakos]

Tldr: time to own up to banning pitbulls

 

[Hrothbern]

To consider re this banning...

The 1st Law of regulating is: "there will be a second order effect that will diminish the returns of the first order intended effect"

So...
when pitbulls would be banned
and the underlying issue was all the time that there are humans who want to have a dog that is awesome....
and they hop over to the next dangerous breed that makes you as owner a real cool person....

Did we gain that much ?

I think that a license for certain breeds would be more effective
Some kinds of dogs are really difficult to control, to train well.

 

[Bamspeedy]

Tldr: time to own up to banning pitbulls

Before today I was for banning pitbulls because I had in my mind one specific breed that came to my mind whenever I thought of 'pitbull', but now I'm not really for it since now I know 'pitbull' includes several different breeds. But that's just my opinion, every jurisdiction is free to decide to ban or not ban whatever breeds they want.

I don't own any dogs (not since I was a kid over 25 years ago), so it's not that my opinion changed because a dog I had was now included in the 'pitbull' category like what may make some people change their opinion.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

To consider re this banning...

The 1st Law of regulating is: "there will be a second order effect that will diminish the returns of the first order intended effect"

So...
when pitbulls would be banned
and the underlying issue was all the time that there are humans who want to have a dog that is awesome....
and they hop over to the next dangerous breed that makes you as owner a real cool person....

Did we gain that much ?

I think that a license for certain breeds would be more effective
Some kinds of dogs are really difficult to control, to train well.

If the "I want a pit bull so I can terrorize people with my dog" crowd ever figures out that Rottweilers are far more effective for taking down human sized prey the entire pit bull problem will be immediately solved.

 

[Synobun]

If the "I want a pit bull so I can terrorize people with my dog" crowd ever figures out that Rottweilers are far more effective for taking down human sized prey the entire pit bull problem will be immediately solved.

And just you wait until the Russian bear-hunter breeds get imported to North America, dwarfing both pit bulls and rottweilers. Pandemonium! It's a wonder the Caucasus region even exists after having these uncontrollable man-eating beasts around for so long.

 

[Hrothbern]

And just you wait until the Russian bear-hunter breeds get imported to North America, dwarfing both pit bulls and rottweilers. Pandemonium! It's a wonder the Caucasus region even exists after having these uncontrollable man-eating beasts around for so long.

It would not wonder me if these became indeed a next hype.... probably breeded towards exaggerated size as well.
This dog is basically a shepherd dog for protecting the flock against wolves, typical in remote areas.
Non-urban areas.
And usually together as original working line with other bear-hunter dogs in a pack.
Meaning that in his classic history lots of his raising, socialising, training is being done in a favorable setting and "strangers" are mostly wolves.

The devil with all these working line big dogs for farmers is that they are not suited for urban areas with many people and other dogs, that will be seen as "strangers" that are dangerous for him, his "family" and his flock.
Even the basically not agressive Alpine working lines that came from the same ancestor as the Rotweiler, the Berner and Appenzeller mountain dogs, need a very early socialising BEFORE the new owner gets them, and they really need a very consistent behaviour of the boss, to keep everything ok. The kind of primitive social dominance of an old fashioned farmer.... and far away from todays urban broken families with identity driven kids.
Even if you do have already at least one other dog that helps you with raising, socialising, training your puppy and juvenile dog, you need to spend more time on your puppy than a newborn human baby, to get things really ok. And need to expose the puppy already very young to multiple social events with "strangers" to get him used to that at very young age.

All these breeds go only ok if someone knows what to do AND has the time and the setting for such a dog.