America: Y ur peeps b so dum?

[BuckeyeJim]

It's called a public goods problem. The costs are simply too high for everyone who could benefit from it to pay for it themselves. And so not enough investment will take place. And because of that the total economic growth of the nation will be held back.

This sounds like a load of malarkey to me. You can get a good education and not pay a whole lot in this country. The key is to pick a career path and an educational path that will pay itself back. I didn't say it would be easy, but I didn't come from money. I didn't even start off with a scholarship to the Community College I started off at. But I worked my tail off, got a 4.0, and proceeded to get a significant scholarship to Ohio State! Even if I hadn't I still would have attended OSU to complete my bachelors degree in Communications because that investment would pay itself back over time. I mean, isn't that the point? Isn't that a really derivative concept? Determine what you want to do and pursue a degree that will be cost effective? Community Colleges are not expensive at all, and state schools are certainly not prohibitively expensive either. There are other options as well. Many of my peers that I attended school with actually went to two year trade shows and are making out much better than I am churning my way towards the PhD day by day, year by year. Guys went to school to turn wrenches and have base rate pays in excess of 25 dollars an hour and they're under 30! Nothing wrong with that route in my book. There's plenty of demand, and plenty of economical routes for individuals to take that are: A.) Affordable B.) Pay off in the end, and C.) Within the capabilities of varying people.

It's my opinion that people downplay secondary education and all the varieties of secondary education that are available for everyone. The problem is that there is an illusion of not being able to afford college. While it's true that most people cannot afford those upfront costs, a judicious examination of colleges and careers will allow anybody to pursue a path that will allow them to afford college down the road and pay back those loans over time. Again, at my peak I had 23K in total debt accumulated over the course of my bachelors. It was a $300 monthly payment. Not that bad for what I would have in the end of 40 years of employment thanks to that degree.

I mean, why would you pursue a path towards higher education if you couldn't pay it back? Education is an investment. And it should be a personal one at that. People just need the right perspective, the right motivation, and the right mindset.

 

[Cutlass]

This sounds like a load of malarkey to me. You can get a good education and not pay a whole lot in this country. The key is to pick a career path and an educational path that will pay itself back. I didn't say it would be easy, but I didn't come from money. I didn't even start off with a scholarship to the Community College I started off at. But I worked my tail off, got a 4.0, and proceeded to get a significant scholarship to Ohio State! Even if I hadn't I still would have attended OSU to complete my bachelors degree in Communications because that investment would pay itself back over time. I mean, isn't that the point? Isn't that a really derivative concept? Determine what you want to do and pursue a degree that will be cost effective? Community Colleges are not expensive at all, and state schools are certainly not prohibitively expensive either. There are other options as well. Many of my peers that I attended school with actually went to two year trade shows and are making out much better than I am churning my way towards the PhD day by day, year by year. Guys went to school to turn wrenches and have base rate pays in excess of 25 dollars an hour and they're under 30! Nothing wrong with that route in my book. There's plenty of demand, and plenty of economical routes for individuals to take that are: A.) Affordable B.) Pay off in the end, and C.) Within the capabilities of varying people.

It's my opinion that people downplay secondary education and all the varieties of secondary education that are available for everyone. The problem is that there is an illusion of not being able to afford college. While it's true that most people cannot afford those upfront costs, a judicious examination of colleges and careers will allow anybody to pursue a path that will allow them to afford college down the road.

I mean, why would you pursue a path towards higher education if you couldn't pay it back? Education is an investment. And it should be a personal one at that. People just need the right perspective, the right motivation, and the right mindset.

So you did well and you think that's a justification for preventing other people from doing so?

Not everyone has had the chances that you have. Not everyone can do that. Everyone in the country would be better off if education was cheaper. The fact that you are doing well does not justify denying others the chance to do as well.

 

[ParkCungHee]

Eh, you know what? I'm doing some poking around, and I don't think they actually differ THAT much from state to state, outside of a few exceptions (like Texas). Nominally, the state standards (on a state's DOE website, and what are covered on a test), from my "dumb" state (Louisiana) were not radically different from those of a "smart" state (say, Massachusetts).

Yeah, because you're looking state to state. That might sound decentralized to like, Europe, but you have to go School District to School District in the United States.

 

[BuckeyeJim]

So you did well and you think that's a justification for preventing other people from doing so?

Not everyone has had the chances that you have. Not everyone can do that. Everyone in the country would be better off if education was cheaper. The fact that you are doing well does not justify denying others the chance to do as well.

What chance was I given with exactly $0 to pay for college and no financial support from my family that other kids didn't have?

 

[Tycho Brahe]

Jesus help America cause it is in trouble.

I loved hes Book and Blogg (work). Such insights into american culture with hes own frank and dark humour. If your an American (or have an interest) do yourself a favour buy hes book.

As a european I'm offended by the americentrism. Europeans are at least equally dumb.

 

[Cutlass]

What chance was I given with exactly $0 to pay for college and no financial support from my family that other kids didn't have?

That doesn't mean that others were not is worse starting positions.

 

[BuckeyeJim]

That doesn't mean that others were not is worse starting positions.

How do you get worse than zero?

 

[ParkCungHee]

How do you get worse than zero?

That's easy, you have negatives.
Jeez, and they let you into college you say?

 

[Cutlass]

How do you get worse than zero?

Your starting place may not have been wonderful. But it wasn't zero.

 

[BuckeyeJim]

That's easy, you have negatives.
Jeez, and they let you into college you say?

How do you start of below zero out of high school?

Your starting place may not have been wonderful. But it wasn't zero.

No, it was zero. As in, zero. As in, nothing. The day I graduated high school I had nothing to my name and had to work through summer just get my head above water so I could make a few rent payments when I started community college. I didn't one thin dime to my name and parents did not have the financial ability to assist me and made it perfectly clear that I'd be on my own if I wanted to go to college.

From a financial perspective it couldn't get any worse unless you had a drug or gambling debt or some other absurdity that would render you too immature on a mental and emotional level to attend college anyway.

There is no financial justification that you could possibly imagine that changes anything I said before about the financial feasibility of secondary education and the necessity for this investment to be a personal one.

 

[Cutlass]

How do you start of below zero out of high school?



No, it was zero. As in, zero. As in, nothing. The day I graduated high school I had nothing to my name and had to work through summer just get my head above water so I could make a few rent payments when I started community college. I didn't one thin dime to my name and parents did not have the financial ability to assist me and made it perfectly clear that I'd be on my own if I wanted to go to college.

From a financial perspective it couldn't get any worse unless you had a drug or gambling debt or some other absurdity that would render you too immature on a mental and emotional level to attend college anyway.

There is no financial justification that you could possibly imagine that changes anything I said before about the financial feasibility of secondary education and the necessity for this investment to be a personal one.

And that's all there is to it. You succeeded despite a poor starting position. And so see the world through that and have no compassion for anyone else. That's really fairly common. And so you dismiss with contempt anyone who hasn't managed what you have.

Fine. Dandy even.

But then you go and superimpose your situation on a fictional world and assume that nothing stops anyone else from doing the same.

There is nothing superior about making people jump through the hoops you did. It's just selfishness. And the zero sum view of the world you get from it is why you just don't comprehend that you personally would have been better off, and still will be, if you reverse your attitude. But I doubt I could ever make you see that. So I'm not going to bother to try.

 

[Bill3000]

How do you start of below zero out of high school?

Crappy high school.

 

[BuckeyeJim]

Crappy high school.

How does a crappy high school give you negative money?

And that's all there is to it. You succeeded despite a poor starting position. And so see the world through that and have no compassion for anyone else. That's really fairly common. And so you dismiss with contempt anyone who hasn't managed what you have.

Fine. Dandy even.

Where did I dismiss anyone? I have articulated a position that encourages people to pursue an education and engenders a positive attitude towards pursuing further education regardless of financial status. You're the one who's assertively declared that people will not go to college, and cannot go to college, simply because they don't have any money. You are the one saying that lack of finances can lead to academic failure out of hand. You're the one dismissing people and their abilities, not me. A

But then you go and superimpose your situation on a fictional world and assume that nothing stops anyone else from doing the same.

I never said this. I said that money shouldn't be an object towards obtaining a secondary education out of high school because there are tons of options available for people of varying talents and personal pursuits. I'm not so sure where you're getting this from!

There is nothing superior about making people jump through the hoops you did. It's just selfishness.

There are many reasons why it is superior. And do you know what selfishness would be? Me expecting to have other people pay for my, personal, educational pursuits. And financing my personal career. Especially as an employee of the government.

And the zero sum view of the world you get from it is why you just don't comprehend that you personally would have been better off, and still will be, if you reverse your attitude. But I doubt I could ever make you see that. So I'm not going to bother to try.

How would I be better off in life being reliant on other people for basic things in life? How would I be better off avoiding the judicious decisions I made before I went to school? This really digs right into the main reason why people don't go to college and fail to graduate in college: Work ethic and devotion to ones self, and it's reciprocal; reliance and expectations of others to do things for you, and expecting people to do all the work for you instead of doing it yourself. I'm way better of today with a little bit of debt than I would have been if my parents just ponied up all the money that was needed for me to get to this point.

Who knows, maybe if society had paid for my college I wouldn't have been occupied with two part time jobs and college and would have ended up dropping out like so many rich kids do because they end partying and doing things that take their eyes off the prize at the end and keep them focused on the enjoyments of today.

Nothing could be more imperative and valuable in life than doing things for yourself.

 

[ParkCungHee]

How do you start of below zero out of high school?

Dependents and debt.
Really I thought the concept of "Less then nothing" was explained sometime around middle school.

How does a crappy high school give you negative money?

Encouraging and promoting drug habits.

 

[BuckeyeJim]

Dependents and debt.
Really I thought the concept of "Less then nothing" was explained sometime around middle school.


Encouraging and promoting drug habits.

Dependents? What kind of debt does a young kid have debt exiting high school? You cannot have a credit card, and you cannot get a loan without a co-signer?

What public school encourages drug habits?

 

[ParkCungHee]

Yes, amazingly enough there are people who, at the age of eighteen, need to bring home a paycheck to support other people.

 

[BuckeyeJim]

Yes, amazingly enough there are people who, at the age of eighteen, need to bring home a paycheck to support other people.

For who? What renders them with legal dependents that would prohibit them from getting loans to meet their financial obligations? Parents can earn welfare, unemployment, food stamps, and do not require their child to care for them. There are other social programs that will do that. If you are a student I do not believe you are entitled to pay child support, nor are you entitled to pay for a spouse. Even if you have to have "a job" in order to take care of a dependent because you choose to take on that responsibility, it does not prohibit you from pursuing secondary education.

 

[Puck Nutty]

In a country of 300 million, if 40% of those people have below average intelligence...yeah that's a lot of stupid people.

But look on the bright side, India and China have about 3 times as many stupid people as you guys.

 

[Bill3000]

In a country of 300 million, if 40% of those people have below average intelligence...yeah that's a lot of stupid people.

Er. 50% do. By definition.

 

[ParkCungHee]

Er. 50% do. By definition.

Er, I know you know math a lot better then me Bill, but wouldn't distribution of intelligence matter for how many people are above and below average?