Time to get rid of the Monarchy?

[Kyriakos]

Britain had already messed everything up beyond repair there. And the locals arguably continued running failed states, ala Idi Amin.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I am not sure that Sparta ever had dual kings who were father and son, is all

Andrew is Charles' brother, not his son. That's why he's well down the line of succession.

 

[Kyriakos]

Andrew is Charles' brother, not his son. That's why he's well down the line of succession.

Yes, it's why he could be the other king, in the spartan model, and not some offspring of HM Charles III.

 

[W|M]

I am not sure that Sparta ever had dual kings who were father and son, is all

england did

 

[Samson]

england did

I totally thought you meant the regency, and it seems that neither went exactly well.

 

[Birdjaguar]

It looks like Iran might be moving towards family succession.

Ayatollah’s Son Becomes a Focus of Demonstrators’ Ire
BY BENOIT FAUCON

As Iranians take to the streets to protest the country’s strict Muslim dress code, they have chanted for the death of a man who once wielded power in secret and now has a growing public profile— Mojtaba Khamenei, son of the Islamic Republic’s supreme leader. Mr. Khamenei, 53 years old, has no official government position. But U.S. and Iranian officials have said he is in charge of his father’s business empire and is influential in appointing and sometimes overseeing key parts of Iran’s security apparatus, which has come under renewed scrutiny following violent clashes between police and protesters over the death of Mahsa Amini, who died while being held in police custody for allegedly violating laws on dressing modestly.
Among the Iranian ruling class, Mr. Khamenei has built a reputation as both an enforcer for and gatekeeper to his father, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who has been Iran’s supreme leader for the past 33 years. Now he has become a serious contender to succeed his father, said people with knowledge of the matter. “In the court of the supreme leader, he is a powerful shadow behind the curtains,” said Saeid Golkar, an authority on Iran’s security services who teaches at the University of Tennessee.

In late August, Iran’s religious establishment elevated the younger Mr. Khamenei to the rank of ayatollah, a prestigious religious title that he would need to become the supreme leader of Iran. The appointment came as his father’s health worsened in recent weeks, which forced the 83year-old to cancel meetings and go into temporary seclusion, the people said. The appearance that the elder Mr. Khamenei is grooming his son for succession is controversial in Iran, where the 1979 revolution installed clerical rule and rejected hereditary monarchy as corrupt. And such a succession is by no means guaranteed. Standing in the way is President Ebrahim Raisi, a cleric close to the supreme leader with more political credentials and a well-known public persona. The younger Mr. Khamenei, by contrast, is rarely seen in public. But he is quickly becoming a focus for protesters’ anger in the wake of Ms. Amini’s death. “Mojtaba, may you die and not see the leadership,” a crowd chanted in Tehran.

Iran analysts say Mr. Khamenei’s rising public profile is a sign of the country’s anti-Western line hardening at a time of faltering nuclear negotiations with the West, economic decay at home and rising discontent with Islamic rule.
The rise of Mr. Khamenei marks a shift away from the traditional religious leadership that was crucial to the founding of the Islamic Republic, said analysts and people close to the Iranian government. He instead represents the paramilitaries and more radical clerics that have emerged in recent years as the most powerful actors in the country, these people said.

 

[AmazonQueen]

I totally thought you meant the regency, and it seems that neither went exactly well.

Theres also Ethelred and Edmund Ironside

 

[Takhisis]

Afrikaans is not the same thing as Dutch. If it is, then Italian and Spanish are the same thing, too.

I never said Afrikaans is the same thing as Dutch. As I have said already in this very thread, this does happen to be my actual field of expertise.

What I was saying with this specific comment is that there is a contradiction between your claim to superiority based on Afrikaans being an overtaal and then appearing to prefer English-speaking places (even one whose entire identity is in opposition to both the concept of monarchy in general monarchy) over the speakers of the Dutch oertaal who also happen to uphold the apparently intrinsecally beneficial institution of monarchy.

They almost put a German prince on their throne when they became independent.

You haven't answered my question about how it makes monarchy superior.

Where on their family tree are their Irish ancestors?

Uhm, they are Irish.The Irish state recognises them as Irish, what else do you want?

Once again, I don't care if other people wish to marry outside of their own ethnic group, I simply do not wish to do so myself.

But once again, you posit that the British monarchy is the epitome of Britishness and blood-and-soil nationalism is so strong with you that you object to (black) African-descended people having a right to live among white European-descended people so wouldn't it be polluted? Or is it just that you don't care since it's a side branch and has enough descendants to keep a pure bloodline healthy for a foreseeable future?

 

[Ajidica]

No, that's the kind of thing that happens in a far-off colony, not something that happens in an EU member state.

Considering the worst of the Troubles were in the 70s and 80s, and the EU was only formed in *checks notes* 1993, I'm failing to see the relevance of talking about the EU in the context of attacks on British civilians and soldiers in the Troubles.

Ian Smith realized that majority rule meant one man, one vote, one time, and that Mugabe, once in power, would stay there as long as he could, not allow fair elections, etc...

Robert Mugabe (and to an extent ZANU/ZANU-PF) was very much a latecomer to the Zimbabwean/Rhodesian political scene. In addition to Archbishop Muzorewa who was the longstanding face of moderate black reform, Joshua Nkomo of ZAPU and Ndabaningi Sithole of ZANU were very prominent figures who Mugabe was able to sideline in large because Muzorewa, Nkomo, and Sithole had specifically tried to negotiate with white Rhodesians and to a compromise; which the Rhodesian government and Smith kept refusing until the only black politician with any credibility was Robert Mugabe. (Who it must be said, Ian Smith spoke positively of in the early 80s, calling Mugabe a man he could do business with.)
Plus the Rhodesian security situation collapsed almost as soon as Portugal left Africa following the Carnation Revolution, and even South Africa couldn't be bothered to keep Rhodesia alive.

 

[Uncle Paul]

I never said Afrikaans is the same thing as Dutch. As I have said already in this very thread, this does happen to be my actual field of expertise.

You still haven't answered about Waterval Boven and Waterval Onder.

What I was saying with this specific comment is that there is a contradiction between your claim to superiority based on Afrikaans being an overtaal and then appearing to prefer English-speaking places (even one whose entire identity is in opposition to both the concept of monarchy in general monarchy) over the speakers of the Dutch oertaal who also happen to uphold the apparently intrinsecally beneficial institution of monarchy.

The Netherlands is a far-left country these days.

You haven't answered my question about how it makes monarchy superior.

A dignified head of state is better than a partisan clown. It also ensures that someone like Sadiq Khan will never be the head of state.

Uhm, they are Irish.The Irish state recognises them as Irish, what else do you want?

They're Irish on paper only. It's like calling two people who married for some legal advantage but never lived together or even consummated their marriage "a couple".

But once again, you posit that the British monarchy is the epitome of Britishness and blood-and-soil nationalism is so strong with you that you object to (black) African-descended people having a right to live among white European-descended people so wouldn't it be polluted? Or is it just that you don't care since it's a side branch and has enough descendants to keep a pure bloodline healthy for a foreseeable future?

Harry is the spare, not the heir, so I don't care.

Considering the worst of the Troubles were in the 70s and 80s, and the EU was only formed in *checks notes* 1993, I'm failing to see the relevance of talking about the EU in the context of attacks on British civilians and soldiers in the Troubles.

European Economic Community - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Robert Mugabe (and to an extent ZANU/ZANU-PF) was very much a latecomer to the Zimbabwean/Rhodesian political scene. In addition to Archbishop Muzorewa who was the longstanding face of moderate black reform, Joshua Nkomo of ZAPU and Ndabaningi Sithole of ZANU were very prominent figures who Mugabe was able to sideline in large because Muzorewa, Nkomo, and Sithole had specifically tried to negotiate with white Rhodesians and to a compromise; which the Rhodesian government and Smith kept refusing until the only black politician with any credibility was Robert Mugabe. (Who it must be said, Ian Smith spoke positively of in the early 80s, calling Mugabe a man he could do business with.)
Plus the Rhodesian security situation collapsed almost as soon as Portugal left Africa following the Carnation Revolution, and even South Africa couldn't be bothered to keep Rhodesia alive.

The problem is they wanted too much change, too fast. Evolution, not revolution.

 

[Ajidica]

European Economic Community - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The EEC is not the EU. If you meant the EEC, why not say the EEC?
Furthermore, what does the existence of a common market and custom union have to do with how the UK should respond to attacks on British civilians and soldiers by Irish terrorists?

The problem is they wanted too much change, too fast. Evolution, not revolution.

When the proposals of a Methodist Bishop are too radical for you, you know you got a problem!

 

[amadeus]

The problem is they wanted too much change, too fast. Evolution, not revolution.

Smith held out for too long and too much, and each time a deal came by he or his cabinet rejected it. By 1980, he was in little position to negotiate.

 

[Uncle Paul]

The EEC is not the EU. If you meant the EEC, why not say the EEC?
Furthermore, what does the existence of a common market and custom union have to do with how the UK should respond to attacks on British civilians and soldiers by Irish terrorists?

When the proposals of a Methodist Bishop are too radical for you, you know you got a problem!

It's like Great Britain vs the UK.
Muzorewa and Smith should have met in the middle.

Smith held out for too long and too much, and each time a deal came by he or his cabinet rejected it. By 1980, he was in little position to negotiate.

You live for the fight when that's all that you've got...

 

[Takhisis]

It's like Great Britain vs the UK.

Which, like the EEC and the EU, are not the same.

Now, I'm going to cull down your ever-extending posts to the parts more directly related to the British monarchy or to monarchy in general.

The Netherlands is a far-left country these days.

OK, so monarchy doesn't save one from communism apparently.

A dignified head of state is better than a partisan clown. It also ensures that someone like Sadiq Khan will never be the head of state.

Here you say that some people should rule and some people sholdn't.

They're Irish on paper only. It's like calling two people who married for some legal advantage but never lived together or even consummated their marriage "a couple".

What? This argument could be used to expel all undesirables from Ireland, including but not limited to all Protestant settlers from the Tudor era.

And who are you to tell the Irish who's Irish and who isn't?

Harry is the spare, not the heir, so I don't care.

And again here you are back to specifying about rule. You don't want white people ruled by black people. You are, however, fine with white people ruling black people, as we've seen in your impassioned defence of the Rhodesian and Algerian colonialisms (not just your own).

So basically you have an image of the world with white people at the helm, and only those that think the same way that you do at that, and nobody's allowed to. This is best exemplified by a British monarchy.
And yet you make a thread about the Boers are superior including having a ‘superior language’ (citation needed™) and superior everything and so on about how they deserve to be their own civ on Civ games… and how their just and fair Republic™ was taken from the by the evil British monarchy.

So you want monarchy even if it's your enemy because it's superior but you don't want your own country to be a monarchy and also you want a monarch that exemplifies how, who and what is superior and tells everyone how the world should be but at the same time hail your won ancestors for being superior and being so individualistic that they rejected monarchy…

There's so, so many contradictions in what you're saying.

Now, could you please stop repeating yourself over and over so that people can have a conversation instead of shouting iterations of the exact same things over and over and over?

 

[Ajidica]

Muzorewa and Smith should have met in the middle.

What would the "middle" have been?

 

[Angst]

The Netherlands is a far-left country these days.

a neoliberal free market economy in the EU single market and a parliamentary democracy with free elections is far left?
what the hell is centre to you?

 

[Uncle Paul]

Which, like the EEC and the EU, are not the same.

Close enough.

Now, I'm going to cull down your ever-extending posts to the parts more directly related to the British monarchy or to monarchy in general.

OK.

OK, so monarchy doesn't save one from communism apparently.

It's not communist, more multicultural and oversexed.

Here you say that some people should rule and some people sholdn't.

Yes.

What? This argument could be used to expel all undesirables from Ireland, including but not limited to all Protestant settlers from the Tudor era.

Greece and Turkey did a population exchange 99 years ago. Ireland and the UK could do a similar one...British-origin people in Ireland to Britain, Irish-origin people in Britain to Ireland.

And who are you to tell the Irish who's Irish and who isn't?

I have interacted online with many ethnic Irish who are very unhappy with the current state of affairs.

And again here you are back to specifying about rule. You don't want white people ruled by black people. You are, however, fine with white people ruling black people, as we've seen in your impassioned defence of the Rhodesian and Algerian colonialisms (not just your own).

Algerians are not black.

So basically you have an image of the world with white people at the helm, and only those that think the same way that you do at that, and nobody's allowed to. This is best exemplified by a British monarchy.
And yet you make a thread about the Boers are superior including having a ‘superior language’ (citation needed™) and superior everything and so on about how they deserve to be their own civ on Civ games… and how their just and fair Republic™ was taken from the by the evil British monarchy.

Elizabeth II isn't Victoria or Edward VII, and they were also both figureheads who didn't direct policy. Edward VII was really fat, though. He was comically rotund, like the fictional character depicted below.

So you want monarchy even if it's your enemy because it's superior but you don't want your own country to be a monarchy and also you want a monarch that exemplifies how, who and what is superior and tells everyone how the world should be but at the same time hail your won ancestors for being superior and being so individualistic that they rejected monarchy…

There's so, so many contradictions in what you're saying.

Now, could you please stop repeating yourself over and over so that people can have a conversation instead of shouting iterations of the exact same things over and over and over?

A monarchy is part of British traditions. A republic is part of Boer traditions. I don't want Boer traditions forced on the Brits, and I don't want British traditions forced on Boers.
BTW, I would much rather return to having the British monarch as head of state, while the actual political power is held by a Boer PM (the situation between 1910-1961) than continue with the current state of affairs (ANC radical 1-party rule with no foreign head of state).

What would the "middle" have been?

Relaxing the voting qualifications a little so more blacks qualified.

a neoliberal free market economy in the EU single market and a parliamentary democracy with free elections is far left?
what the hell is centre to you?

Mass migration, multiculturalism, a degree of sexual openness I'm not comfortable with, etc...I've heard it's common for Dutch women to be topless in public, which is, in my opinion, un-decent and rude.

 

[Angst]

Mass migration, multiculturalism, a degree of sexual openness I'm not comfortable with, etc...I've heard it's common for Dutch women to be topless in public, which is, in my opinion, un-decent and rude.

bolded: lmao what are you talking about

i think this is more about what you're comfortable with than what the netherlands actually are

regardless i ask the question again: what is centre to you

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Greece and Turkey did a population exchange 99 years ago. Ireland and the UK could do a similar one...British-origin people in Ireland to Britain, Irish-origin people in Britain to Ireland.

So everyone should "go back to your country" even if that's not where they were born, and are completely unfamiliar with it?

As I said, if we all went back to where our ancestors came from, East Africa would get mighty crowded. What's the world population now... have we reached 8 billion yet?

I have interacted online with many ethnic Irish who are very unhappy with the current state of affairs.

And of course that qualifies you to speak for every Irish person everywhere. (that's sarcasm, btw)

Mass migration, multiculturalism, a degree of sexual openness I'm not comfortable with, etc...I've heard it's common for Dutch women to be topless in public, which is, in my opinion, un-decent and rude.

Holy crap, you definitely need to stay away from Canada. I mean, people actually leave their city of birth to live in other cities, and even leave their province of birth to live in other provinces. We travel outside our own provinces on holiday (BC is beautiful, and I've actually seen more of that province than of my own).

And horror of horrors, we welcome people from other parts of the world! We let them keep their cultural traditions (the ones that don't violate our own laws; polygamy, for instance, is illegal)! In fact, we encourage them to share their cultural traditions and their cuisine (one of the most enjoyable Folk Festivals I remember was sampling German and Chinese dishes while watching bhangra dancing on the stage; I guess you'd be horrified to know that Jagmeet Singh did bhangra dancing at an Ottawa Press Gallery dinner to gently tease Justin for his own efforts at bhangra dancing on a trip to India). Enjoying lefse and a variety of other multicultural dishes at another Folk Festival while watching Ukranian dancers on the stage is another nice memory (I had to explain lefse to my mother, though; it's not something she was familiar with even though she married into a Swedish/Norwegian-Canadian family).

With your abhorrence of multiculturalism, you must have very boring meals and entertainment. My current musical preferences include Enya, the Irish Rovers (the older material), Yanni, Wuauquikuna, and so on). The Irish Rovers are the only Canadians in this list, and even they were all born in Ireland.

Oh, and topless women? Legal in two Canadian provinces that I know of. Also, as far as I know, public breastfeeding is legal everywhere here.

 

[Lexicus]

regardless i ask the question again: what is centre to you

Absolute monarchy but the monarch can only be white