The freeze has not really started yet so you might want to do the change now so the balance is better for the release and you can use the freeze week to improve it.Thanks for the feedback. I agree with all those statements, as I forgot to mess with them in the first place. I'll probably be committing a new gamespeedinfos file at the end of the freeze with all the fixes I'm planning.
Timelines, Dates and Eras
- Thread starter Praetyre
- Start date
OK, I've implemented three of BlueGenie's Eternity changes.
-about doubled the unit train rate (was the same as Snail before, sorry)
-increased the building build rate slightly.
-Increased the Goldenage length by 33%.
I'm going to leave Research rates alone for now, as they need more testing. Post feedback in the Balance thread I started from now on please.
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
I was just doing the Medieval Times and i just got Engineering which is about 1/2 way through it, BUT i am still in the BC Era, on Snail Speed??
The most commonly given start date for the Middle Ages is 476, first used by Bruni. This was when Romulus Augustus, the last Roman emperor in the West, abdicated.
The most commonly given start date for the Middle Ages is 476, first used by Bruni. This was when Romulus Augustus, the last Roman emperor in the West, abdicated.
Is that a game that has been played completely under the new timeline settings or have they changed half way through the game?
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
Completely though it.
Do you recall at what dates you reached Ancient and Classical?
I'm playing a standard map on eternity (new settings) and I'm still in the Ancient era at 2563BC, which seems ok (should reach classical in another 4 or 5 techs I think). I'm also having a struggle managing my economy and empire stability (in a good way in that I'm managing to do so, thoguh I'm having to work at it)
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
@SO,
On Epic speed I reached Sed. Lifestyle 1st @1800BC (54th Tech researched). I had Agriculture (62nd tech) at 1440BC. Just got Trade (# 73) ~ 800BC. Still in Ancient Era.
But since Epic was not one of the readjusted game speeds this is probably all irrelevant. Game started 3-20-2012 off new SVN build on that date. Has been SVN updated once, yesterday's morning build iirc.
I've been logging the tech path I research and also noting when I found a new religion. I have founded 3 religions so far. Shamanism and Tengriism by research path and I got Naghualism from getting Sacrificial Cult from a Goody Hut. This is a Rare occurrence! And this game only the 2nd GH that gave a new tech. The 1st GH I encountered gave me Language tech right before I had Gatherer researched.
JosEPh
On Epic speed I reached Sed. Lifestyle 1st @1800BC (54th Tech researched). I had Agriculture (62nd tech) at 1440BC. Just got Trade (# 73) ~ 800BC. Still in Ancient Era.
But since Epic was not one of the readjusted game speeds this is probably all irrelevant. Game started 3-20-2012 off new SVN build on that date. Has been SVN updated once, yesterday's morning build iirc.
I've been logging the tech path I research and also noting when I found a new religion. I have founded 3 religions so far. Shamanism and Tengriism by research path and I got Naghualism from getting Sacrificial Cult from a Goody Hut. This is a Rare occurrence! And this game only the 2nd GH that gave a new tech. The 1st GH I encountered gave me Language tech right before I had Gatherer researched.
JosEPh
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
1. No i should have checked the darn era, and timelines, i just so distracted with my Dad going into the Hospital for 4 days, sorry
2. Yes with the new property and crime and your AI improvements, it is getting very hard( or struggle as you say) to get things going, which i believe is a DARN good thing, it way better this way. (Way to go guys:goodjob
Yeah you know me, i like Epic also, but with the NEW timelines, and as stated above, i HAD to move to Snail, it much more diverse now.
It has taken a long time just to get this far, and i think "the guys" are doing en excellent job
so far, keep up the great work.And as you mentioned, Epic speed will NOT be worked on for awhile, really i see no immediate rush to do so either, no offense.
Update - in my eternity, standard size game I just moved into classical at 2338BC (a little early I think). I am now teching at about a tech every 8 turns, and I'm leading of the civs I can see (but I'm well behind the actual leader(s) still). Crime has become a factor, but it's managable (definately having an effect though and making my gold and happyness management much more effort than previously). I've had two wars now, and I'm having to juggle my science slider - haven't been at 100% for a long time, mostly holding about 70%, but sometimes dipping down a lot lower.
This is a big improvement IMO.
This is a big improvement IMO.
It sure is the same for me. Just reached Classical myself, Eternity, Deity, Gigantic map, in 1450 BC. I'm way behind in research though, slowly playing catch-up.
No wars yet and still managing the 100% science slider though only barely. Haven't been able to expand quite as I'd like though, have a mere 6 cities compared to the two AI I've seen with 10 and 12 cities each.
I think the tech-pathing might have gotten better for the AI now that they don't start with weird techs all over the place and that can contribute to the now more competitive AI.
To "help" the AI I'm playing without rev, no city limits, no barb generals, no great generals, no surround and destroy, no goody huts, not starting as Minor Civs, and Limited Religions (not prophet based though). Basically anything that makes it easier for me, the player, is off.
Cheers
No wars yet and still managing the 100% science slider though only barely. Haven't been able to expand quite as I'd like though, have a mere 6 cities compared to the two AI I've seen with 10 and 12 cities each.
I think the tech-pathing might have gotten better for the AI now that they don't start with weird techs all over the place and that can contribute to the now more competitive AI.
To "help" the AI I'm playing without rev, no city limits, no barb generals, no great generals, no surround and destroy, no goody huts, not starting as Minor Civs, and Limited Religions (not prophet based though). Basically anything that makes it easier for me, the player, is off.
Cheers
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
This is what I was hoping the crime would do for the gold/happiness. Also the fact people are having to use the science slider again is great news! We have been way too spoiled in the fact we had tons of gold and never had to move our science sliders.
It seems that from what SO and Koshling have been posting that the Snail and Eternity are (still) a little too fast. I have however done some looking, and part of the problem is something I did not expect.
In the CIV4EraInfos.xml file, the one that defines the different eras, there is a tag, <iResearchPercent>, which I believe controls how much research you need to make techs. In Prehistoric and Ancient, the number is 100, but afterwards it starts dropping off in subsequent eras, all the way down to 40 in the Transhuman Era and 35 in the Galactic Era! Assuming my interpretation of this tag is correct (someone can help me on that one), this may be part of the reason why people are starting to go much faster after the Ancient Era.
If my assumption is correct about the tag's function, I'll turn all of them up to 100, as well as add a small increase to the gamespeed research times. Hopefully that will balance things in a much better way.
In the CIV4EraInfos.xml file, the one that defines the different eras, there is a tag, <iResearchPercent>, which I believe controls how much research you need to make techs. In Prehistoric and Ancient, the number is 100, but afterwards it starts dropping off in subsequent eras, all the way down to 40 in the Transhuman Era and 35 in the Galactic Era! Assuming my interpretation of this tag is correct (someone can help me on that one), this may be part of the reason why people are starting to go much faster after the Ancient Era.
If my assumption is correct about the tag's function, I'll turn all of them up to 100, as well as add a small increase to the gamespeed research times. Hopefully that will balance things in a much better way.
The rates are all game speed setting times era setting essentially so you are correct. The reason they reduce through eras is to add a twist to era transition, so that it is advantageous to advance to the next era as soon as you can. Similar multipliers apply for food and so on I think.
Anyway, on the continuing progress of my test game...
...it's now 2123BC, and I am researching construction. My research order is slightly strange because the island I am on (quite large -comfortable for at least a 12-15 cities) had no copper...or tin...or lead...so I ended up beelining iron working (sucks ot to be able to build forges). Guess what - exactly one iron resource...on a mountain. So now I am having to try to beeline construction and then invention in order to get mountaineering. Ho hum.
So, If I were to set them all to 100, and we let the fact that era advancement gives other goodies encourage said advancement, would that be OK, balance-wise?
Provided it IS giving o goodies I don't see why not. Might want tom check what each era advancement does generally, at least at a sanity check level.
Well, the other things that improve are city growth thresholds (going from 150 in Prehistoric to 50 in Galactic), Training and creating things (from 100 in Prehistoric through Rennaisance to 55 in Galactic), and GP points and improvement building (from 100 in Prehistoric to 55 in Galactic). So, I think i'll implement said changes, as well as a small research time increase overall.
That tag actually increases research times, it's at how many percent of your total science you get benefit of. 40 in that means that out of 100 beakers you only get 40 counted towards research. Turning them all to 100 will just make things go faster. I'm also halfway certain that that number is only valid if starting in that Era, though I'd be happy if someone would confirm or refute that.
If anything it's the BBAI tag for increasing research costs that should be used. Someone should probably refute or confirm that too though.
From what I've been noticing when playing, and from others posts, I'd more say that the research in Prehistoric takes a little too long while in Ancient and Classical it's a little too fast. After that I think it'll just keep speeding up but part of that might also be due to Tech Diffusing, especially considering that all that have posted so far have been either on somewhat equal footing or behind the AI's.
Decreasing tech times in Prehistoric (so far in my game it took way after 1k turns to get out from there) and increasing them onwards through time (Ancient might actually be alright, it's just if bee-lining for Writing and Classical that makes Ancient techs go fast afterwards).
Might be something to consider actually: making Writing dependent on more techs, like Polytheism (giving people a reason to write things down?) so one doesn't get there too quickly and on to Classical too fast.
Cheers
If anything it's the BBAI tag for increasing research costs that should be used. Someone should probably refute or confirm that too though.
From what I've been noticing when playing, and from others posts, I'd more say that the research in Prehistoric takes a little too long while in Ancient and Classical it's a little too fast. After that I think it'll just keep speeding up but part of that might also be due to Tech Diffusing, especially considering that all that have posted so far have been either on somewhat equal footing or behind the AI's.
Decreasing tech times in Prehistoric (so far in my game it took way after 1k turns to get out from there) and increasing them onwards through time (Ancient might actually be alright, it's just if bee-lining for Writing and Classical that makes Ancient techs go fast afterwards).
Might be something to consider actually: making Writing dependent on more techs, like Polytheism (giving people a reason to write things down?) so one doesn't get there too quickly and on to Classical too fast.
Cheers
Really? Actually, you're right, I just checked, the tag I SHOULD have modified is <iTechCostModifier>, silly me.
For now i'll make Classical and Ancient a little longer, and save other changes for after V22 is released.Edit: OK, so now I'm confused, as neither tag seems to have an effect on the research rates ingame
. Koshling, could you please find out for sure in the code what each of these tags does? Thanks.Really? Actually, you're right, I just checked, the tag I SHOULD have modified is <iTechCostModifier>, silly me.
Edit: OK, so now I'm confused, as neither tag seems to have an effect on the research rates ingame
Will do (it'll be tomorrow though now).
By the way, I don't like making writing deeper in the tree. Getting to diplomacy on a start as minors start takes plenty long enough as it is
I had a look at the code:Really? Actually, you're right, I just checked, the tag I SHOULD have modified is <iTechCostModifier>, silly me.
Edit: OK, so now I'm confused, as neither tag seems to have an effect on the research rates ingame
iTechCostModifier only seems to be used in a function that is called from nowhere so not sure if it does anything at all at the moment.
iResearchPercent in the era info is used but only the one from the starting era and it is actually applied to the cost so the higher the longer the research time. I assume it is meant to allow you to research reasonably with a small empire if you start in a later era.
