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Tomatekh's Sumer for VP

Discussion in 'Mods Repository' started by pineappledan, Mar 27, 2018.

  1. OnceAFreak

    OnceAFreak Chieftain

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    @pineappledan
    mods used: VP 1~7, More UCs, Unique ciy-states

    @HungryForFood
    However it seems like it's not compatible with VP Israel.
    Putting both in the game would cause Israel to lose its UW icon in the selection page!
     
  2. HungryForFood

    HungryForFood Prince

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    @pineappledan I had a quick look at both your Sumer and Israel. Did you remove the mod reference to 4UC? That looks like the main reason why your additional UCs are not showing up. If you can get the referencing to work, you won't need triggers.

    What I did in the version I linked is that I removed CP as the dependency, since CBP is already set as a dependency, which requires CP anyway. I also moved 4UC reference to the first on the list. You won't be able to do this in ModBuddy, open up the civ5proj file in a text editor and do it by hand.
     
  3. OnceAFreak

    OnceAFreak Chieftain

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    @HungryForFood Oops, actually i meant papal state and israel. They seem not to work together@pineappledan here is he screenshot of he text
     
  4. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    Oh. Israel isn't done yet, none of the lua is operational. I haven't set the references in a final place for Israel either.

    @HungryForFood, no the reference to 4UC is in there, I just checked. I moved them to the first of the list anyways though
     
  5. Jarula

    Jarula King

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    Your Sumer needs massive Nerf way to strong.
     
  6. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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  7. Jarula

    Jarula King

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    Sorry pine just got the update in my feed.

    Maybe... In 43 civ game by midieval era they were at 1400 points completed 3 trees etc...

    Everyone else was at 1 tree...
     
  8. OnceAFreak

    OnceAFreak Chieftain

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    I agree with @Jarula
    They need a nerf. Maybe remove he bonus working on specialists or change the immediate food bonus when founding to just have x% food, etc.
    Same thing happened to me.
    Sumer could always snowball so FAST!
    If they just pick Tradition, with their UA, and the food bonus from the policy.
    They are unstoppable, not to mention they have two strong super early units.
     
  9. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    Hmm... Have any of you actually tried playing Sumer yourselves, as opposed to putting them in your game? I designed Sumer specifically so he could decapitate 1-2 close neighbours ultra-early. The AI is also rather aggressive, and the production focus suits the AI very well. If you're finding that you are getting crippled if you start next to him then it's working; you have to rush spearmen tech if your scouts find him as your neighbor.

    I don't play above king (I don't find it fun), but I imagine the bonuses they get to production at higher difficulties makes this civ quite troublesome early. I'm guessing this is an Iroquois/Songhai problem, where the AI is conspicuously better at handling their traits than most other civs. Sumer is pretty straightforward

    @Jarula, I don't doubt your experience, but I'm not inclined to adjust the civ too strongly for a few reasons:
    a) you're reporting 3x the amount of policies on a civ that has mediocre boosts to culture. Their main boosts are science and production.
    b) you're reporting a non-standard game setup, which makes me think that such insane culture gain is likely a mod conflict or glitch. Same as Mitch.sp's bug, I haven't been able to reproduce outrageous culture gains in my own games.

    At any rate, a new version inbound:
    Reduced food and production boost on settle to 60:c5food:/50:c5production:, down from 60/60
    switched Eduba to 2:c5science:/2:c5production:+20%:c5citizen:, instead of culture
    My first guess is that this is overnerfed. We'll see though. I suspect I will be putting that production back up to 60 in short order :p

    Tradition doesn't seem optimal to me. Authority offers more production, expansion and early war benefits. Sumer has a specialist bonus, but I wouldn't say they have a GP focus
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2018
  10. Rob (R8XFT)

    Rob (R8XFT) Ancient Briton Super Moderator

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    Moderator Action: Posts placed incorrectly in the Israel thread moved to here.
     
  11. ridjack

    ridjack King

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  12. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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  13. ridjack

    ridjack King

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    Mm... just in case you missed it, I was underlining the word 'Culture' showing the 'Production' symbol next to it.
     
  14. ridjack

    ridjack King

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    Early decapitation seems to work well enough.

    upload_2018-5-13_1-38-35.png
     
  15. ridjack

    ridjack King

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    Just met Sumer in my King/Standard/Standard game playing as Russia. Turn 158; he's finished out two policy trees when the rest of us have just opened our second. He's also the tech and score leader, has been wonder whoring and is making a ton of gold. I'll play this out for a bit to see if he starts to fall off, but my guess is that his toolkit is making him super snowball.

    EDIT: A thing to note from my brief game playing as Sumer; settling the capital in the above screenshot let me build a Shrine or Monument in three turns. If memory serves, that's faster than a forest hill-settled and invested Carthage. Maybe just a little much?
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2018
  16. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    *shrugs* In addition to the gold, Carthage takes 0 turns to build a lighthouse, a much costlier building.

    new update inbound: lowered the base faith on ziggurats to 3 and increased production cost to 160.
    Reduced number of unique ziggurats from 20 to 15, reworked many of them. Overall, it is a slight nerf.

    Eduba switched to 2 science, 1 food, with 1/5 food scaler. instead of production. Should make it weaker, but also differentiates it from well and water mill.

    Onager wagon text has been fixed
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2018
  17. infidel88

    infidel88 Prince

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    Carthage doesnt start with 3 pop city. And Carthage doesn't have all of its uniques opened with 3 techs. 3 Techs you're usually opening with anyway.

    Sumer player starts with 60 :c5food::c5production: - that means building or unit and 2 more tiles within 2 turns to work. I rolled map with with calendar bades resources, just to test how strong it can be in extreme circumstances when Ziggurat comes online.
    At turn 3 I had 2 extra :c5production::c5culture: from working tiles.
    At turn 30 I had 8/8 :c5war:, 4 policies in authority, mostly from bullying, worker, settler, could've easily take out my neighbor Egypt, who build Karnak for me (nice of them :D), but I stopped playing 2 turns before I've reached Ziggurat.
    It was the first time I saw CS can be too small to ask them for heavy tribute. That's how broken extra production and population (as food is basically population) is.

    With time it would normalize probably, but I didn't want to check.

    And for AI this starting bonus is worth even more, as every :c5food::c5production: is worth more to them than to player. So either reduce bonus or change to free worker for example.

    In a snowbally game, this city has most snowbally bonuses :/
     
  18. infidel88

    infidel88 Prince

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    On and BTW - onager wagon can't fortify. So Khopesh's fatigue malus stays on it forever :/
     
  19. ridjack

    ridjack King

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    Are you on an older version of any of these mods? That was a bug I reported some time ago that got fixed AFAIK.
     
  20. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    No, it has to do with the "cannot gain bonuses from terrain" promotion. That bug is still outstanding. I haven't pushed a new version, yet, for a few reasons.
    • reducing food/production to 50/50 (currrently 60/50) <= I'm not going below 50 prod. Any lower and they wouldn't be able to get anything for 1 turn. A free building in 1 turn can be granted if you clear a forest/jungle. I think 1 free building on specific locations is fair.
    • fixing a bit of text
    • removing the "cannot gain bonuses from terrain" promotion from Onager wagon <= this is contingent on if 4UC drops the khopesh special promotion. Khopesh is under review right now, so I'm taking a "wait and see" approach.
    Note: future updates to VP are going to increase CS of Warrior to 7, and Jaguar to 9. Vulture will remain at 9.
     

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