U.N. Approves Airstrikes to Halt Attacks by Qaddafi Forces

[RedRalph]

In any case, let not indulge in the fantasy that this will be anything but a US operation with a token handful of Europens to pretend this is international in character.

Looks like you called this one embarrassingly wrong

 

[Joecoolyo]

They never abolished their monarchy? Well I admit my knowledge of Modern Spanish history is lacking.. How embarrasing.

I just assumed after Franco kicked the bucket they wouldn't of bothered.

Nah, Franco chose Juan Carlos of the House of Bourbon as his successor, who then oversaw the transition of Spain into a democracy.

 

[Arwon]

They never abolished their monarchy? Well I admit my knowledge of Modern Spanish history is lacking.. How embarrasing.

I just assumed after Franco kicked the bucket they wouldn't of bothered.

Twice, actually. In 1873 and again in 1931.

After defeating the Republic, Franco left the monarchy question calculatedly ambiguous because of the divergent views within his victorious coalition (monarchists, anti-monarchists, and supporters of a different branch called the Carlists). He called the country "the Spanish State."

He declared Spain a monarchy in the 1940s but made himself regent for life because he didn't want to give up power and because he didn't want the heir, Don Juan, to take over (he might have been a bit of a liberal). He got Don Juan to abdicate his claim in favour of his son Juan Carlos, who was Prince of Spain until Franco died, and then orchestrated the restoration of democracy after 1975.

THE MORE YOU KNOW.

 

[MeteorPunch]

The lives of innocents are more important than the sovereignty of an illegitimate government.

What makes the government illegitimate? Do you think democracy is the only form that should be allowed? What if people generally support another form, shouldn't they have that right?

 

[Leonel]

A spokesman for the rebels criticized the Arab League's Secretary General's comments on the no-fly zone;

[size=+1]More than 8,000 Libyans killed in revolt: rebel[/size]

(Reuters) - More than 8,000 Libyans aligned with the rebel movement that rose up against Muammar Gaddafi have been killed in the revolt against his rule, a spokesman for the rebel movement told Al Jazeera Sunday.

"Our dead and martyrs number more than 8,000 killed," Abdel Hafiz Ghoga said.

He criticized Arab League Secretary General Amr Moussa over comments that appeared to be critical of military action by the United States and its allies against Libya.

The Arab League had called for the imposition of a no-fly zone over Libya to protect civilians from Gaddafi's forces but Moussa Sunday condemned "the bombardment of civilians."

"What is happening in Libya differs from the aim of imposing a no-fly zone, and what we want is the protection of civilians and not the bombardment of more civilians," Egypt's state news agency quoted Moussa as saying.

Ghoga said: "Today, when the secretary general spoke, I was surprised."

"What is the mechanism that stops the extermination of the people in Libya, what is the mechanism, Mr. Secretary General? If the protection of civilians is not a humanitarian obligation, what is the mechanism that you propose to us?" he asked.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/20/us-libya-east-toll-idUSTRE72J43620110320

 

[Holycannoli]

The lives of innocents are more important than the sovereignty of an illegitimate government.

What if those "innocents" are curiously well armed rebels taking over parts of the country?

We are not talking innocent lives here, unless you mean the collateral damage of civilians that happens in every major conflict.

 

[Disgustipated]

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2011/03/20/filmmaker-michael-moore-rips-president-obama-libya/

I agree with Michael Moore too about this situation. What is wrong with me?

 

[Perfection]

Wow, France strikes again. How is this news?

 

[Defiant47]

Picture of Khadafi supporters

I'm sure you could find similar rallies about Hitler too.

What if those "innocents" are curiously well armed rebels taking over parts of the country?

We are not talking innocent lives here, unless you mean the collateral damage of civilians that happens in every major conflict.

Yes we are. The Libyan government opened fire on peaceful protesters and used such tactics to crush the anti-government protesting.

Eventually the rebels took up arms and started fighting back, aided by breakaway parts of the military who refused to fire on innocents. So Gadaffi started bombing the cities.

Funny how if someone shoots at me and kills unarmed people around me, and I start shooting back, I'm no longer "innocent".

 

[Holycannoli]

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2011/03/20/filmmaker-michael-moore-rips-president-obama-libya/

I agree with Michael Moore too about this situation. What is wrong with me?

We are sick of it now. It's been 7 years of war, and we are sick of intervening in affairs that aren't ours, especially when it's the UN calling for it. The crap I take after a good meal means more to me than the UN. We have no national interest in Libya other than appeasing the UN.

The US public is not behind this war, and this will hurt Obama politically. We aren't falling for the "humanitarian aid" lie this time. This is a thinly veiled attempt to aid rebels in overthrowing a sovereign government, with France and Britain standing to gain something out of it...I want to say oil but I just don't know yet.

 

[amadeus]

I'm sure you could find similar rallies about Hitler too.

Well, the Germans supported Hitler. I'm not sure how that's supposed to prove to us the Libyans hate Gadhafi.

 

[Whiskey_Lord]

I was just reading Thomas Paine's Rights of Man today, so I feel like I should support this revolution and Western aid in spirit. I just hope that the Libyans aren't going to trade one dictator for another. If they end up with a genuine democracy (not a Western puppet), then this will be something that we should be proud for having helped. I say reserve judgment until the dust settles.

This isn't the first time that France has helped a ragtag group of rebels fight for their freedoms. We Americans shouldn't be so decadent as to scoff at the idea of doing what was done for us.

 

[Glassfan]

I'll bet the Nobel Peace Prize Committee is feeling a Right Bunch of Charlies!

 

[Verbose]

What if those "innocents" are curiously well armed rebels taking over parts of the country?

Has this somehow been a missing piece in the reporting on Libya over in the US?

Parts of the army went over to the rebels and fought the pro-Ghaddafi forces especially in the east, after the latter opened up on civilian protesters. That's how he lost control of the eastern half. Some of the rebel units are of what passes as crack ones in the Libyan army.

Then we got the spectacle of enthousiastic youths with little or no military training getting their hands on Kalashinikovs and jumping onto pick-up trucks to go liberate Tripolis by force. All the while the actual military hands saying they needed to consolidate and start training for an actual military conflict. But in the enthusiasm no one really listened, so they ended going along with it (hoping to mitigate things and that it would all come right in the end possibly).

And then Khaddafi got his military core together and just pushed through the rebels, as professional troops will do. He is however estimated to only have about 10000 to 12000 troops he can really depend on.

I simply do not understand where this extremist notion that the rebels must be some kind of pacifistic vegetarians to merit a second look as serious people comes from?

 

[Defiant47]

Well, the Germans supported Hitler. I'm not sure how that's supposed to prove to us the Libyans hate Gadhafi.

I meant in the today, but whatever...

Has this somehow been a missing piece in the reporting on Libya over in the US?

...

I simply do not understand where this extremist notion that the rebels must be some kind of pacifistic vegetarians to merit a second look as serious people comes from?

Funny... your answer lies in exactly what you wrote in the middle. Not pacifists - innocent.

 

[Incodcito]

What makes the government illegitimate? Do you think democracy is the only form that should be allowed? What if people generally support another form, shouldn't they have that right?

Jesus, does Forma have two accounts on this forum? 1 moral relativist is all I can tolerate.



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[NedimNapoleon]

I hate when America does the World police men perk. Its their rebellion/war let them sort it out

 

[Verbose]

Funny... your answer lies in exactly what you wrote in the middle. Not pacifists - innocent.

Well, I think everyone including Ghaddafi can agree they're guilty of rebellion. Is that somehow a problem? Of what relevance is "innocence" supposed to be in the first place?

 

[Godwynn]

I hate when America does the World police men perk. Its their rebellion/war let them sort it out

Are you suggesting that the West should have left Bosnia to fend for itself in '95?

 

[NedimNapoleon]

Are you suggesting that the West should have left Bosnia to fend for itself in '95?

No because we were invaded and because the situation was bad, Libya is different, its not an ethnic conflict or an aggression, its all about internal politics, let them resolve that by themselves