U.N. Approves Airstrikes to Halt Attacks by Qaddafi Forces

[Camikaze]

The US seems to have been almost completely impotent on this one. Cameron started the charge before losing his nerve, and Sarko took it to the breach. Hill and Obama picked at their cuffs until the AU kissed their booty hard enough to let Sarko and Cameron off the leash.

This would have been awesome two weeks ago, now its a bit to little to late I am afraid. The funny thing is that there is no real difference in the reasons to come to this course of action than there was then, all we needed is one particular person to have taken this leadership opportunity to do something that was a no brainer.

Maintaining a pretence of US non-involvement (or at least, maintaining a pretence that it isn't a US led effort) is pretty important for the US. That they waited for multilateral approval, and that they will not lead enforcement are most likely calculated decisions, not a lack of leadership.

Although it would've been nice to see faster movement towards this.

Also, a victory for the UN (it can do something!).

 

[Tee Kay]

Also, a victory for the UN (it can do something!).

It agreed on a principle. Yay.

 

[Camikaze]

How come two countries (the UK and the US) who were invoked in leveling a city in Iraq (Fallujah) in their war against armed insurgents can claim any standing for attacking the libyan government for doing the same thing?

Because the aim in both situations is ostensibly the same; to conduct a 'just' war for the betterment of general liberal principles (resulting in a benefit not only for the locals but for the liberal prosecutors). There is no hypocrisy.

And how come the "international community" be willing to intervene to "protect the civilian population" in libya, and the same international community intervene in Bahrain against the "civilian population?

A trickier question. Perhaps because intervention against Libya will do more for the spreading of general liberal principles than intervention against Bahrain.

 

[illram]

I remain heavily skeptical. New military humanism concerns, etc. I don't know, I just don't think it's a good idea. I would like to be wrong.

If it is going to happen, it would be nice to see Europe carrying the load on the bombing campaign (necessary to enforce any no-fly zone) and enforcement of this resolution, rather than the US.

Why do we not care about Bahrain? Or Sudan, where much worse things have been happening for years?

 

[Tee Kay]

Why do we not care about Bahrain?

American allies are Good.

Or Sudan, where much worse things have been happening for years?

Any conflict in Sub-Saharan Africa, for those people who actually knows where the bloody country is on the map, is usually automatically written off as TATM (Typical African Tribal Mess) and ignored by default.

 

[Camikaze]

You can't go into every single country that has human rights violations, or that is oppressing their populace. It makes much more sense to attempt to affect change both where you can and where it will be most drastic. Where there is most to gain. I'm guessing that attacking Sudan is hardly practical, and I'm guessing change can be affected in Bahrain without a bombing campaign.

 

[Masada]

I figure that Libya doesn't offer much to the Chinese or Russias. Sudan at least is closer to China than Europe.

 

[Tee Kay]

Tip to all aspiring despots out there: don't ally yourself with democracies. Russia and China are your best friends. (also, Saudi Arabia)

 

[Masada]

America does annoying things like gain a conscience at the wrong time.

 

[vornan19]

I suppose if I had my way there would only be one member of the security council, the US.

And that statement makes me glad it isn't.

For the UN to have any legitimacy no one should have a veto.

 

[Ramius75]

Civil War in Libya. And now the international community feels the need to intervene. Strange, how many civil wars have occurred in other countries since the formation of the UN?

I can't count how many there were.

I guess Libya is "special."

Or Bahrain....

nothing to see here, moving on.

 

[Gigaz]

If Ghaddafi would only return to his terrorist behaviour, the Europeans would propably not want to intervene in Libya. But he can do something much worse: He might undermine the EU immigration policy and help the Africans and Muslims to get into Europe.

 

[Tani Coyote]

I think we had an incentive to delay this until it wouldn't make a damned difference.

If the Islamic world sees Libya and sees "rebellion = get butchered," then naturally that helps keep them from protesting, thus keeping oil prices stable.

That's politics.

 

[Tee Kay]

Airstrikes "imminent"

Libya shut down its air space today as Britain and France were expected to scramble fighter jets against Muammar Gaddafi's forces after they secured the UN Security Council's blessing.

Eurocontrol, the continent's air traffic agency, said Tripoli "does not accept traffic" until further notice, citing information from Maltese authorities, as France announced air strikes would be imminent.

Government spokesman Francois Baroin Military said action against Libya would come within "hours" and France will participate in the strikes.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Merkel has of course announced that Germany will not particitate becaue a new German military engagement might cost her and her party votes in the short run. She didn't say the last part, but it's Merkel
Instead she wants to calm our allies with more engagement in Afghanstan, as if there's still something to be won over there..

Man, first blocking every european decision, then getting cold feet about nuclear power in Germany because of earthquakes in Japan and now and now just shutting her eyes and all but telling our allies "not our problem". Grow some backbone, woman.
I hate this government. It seems she'd rather not bother with any foreign policy at all.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

@GoodSarmatian
That Germany decides to be such a sissy angers me as well. I would love to see a poll on this, because I am not sure if this is in correspondence with public opinion or not (but I fear it is).

I just heard on the radio that the Libyan foreign minister talked about a ceased fire - quite a contrast to Qaddafi threatening the Mediterranean sea with strikes should there be military measures against Libya. Seems this more or less symbolic action may unfold more power than some skeptics assume.

 

[Masada]

I'm happy with Germany being a bunch of sissy girls. The last time you lot got uppity, you up and forget six years of history.

 

[kronic]

I'm happy with Germany being a bunch of sissy girls.

So am I.

 

[Naval Power]

I'm happy with Germany being a bunch of sissy girls. The last time you lot got uppity, you up and forget six years of history.

Uppity hahahahaha

Golden

 

[NedimNapoleon]

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo