UA Elimination Thread

[comatosedragon]

Trade Caravans (Arabia) (5)
Sacrificial Captives (Aztecs) (15)
Ingenuity (Babylon) (21)
Art of War (China) (11)
Viking Fury (Denmark) (9)
Monument Builders (Egypt) (4)
Ancien Régime (France) (20)
Furor Teutonicus (Germany) (11)
Hellenic League (Greece) (10)
Great Andean Road (Inca) (18) +1
Population Growth (India) (11)
The Great Warpath (Iroquois) (4) -2
Bushido (Japan) (15)
Scholars of the Jade Hall (Korea) (11)
Achaemenic Legacy (Persia) (17)
Wayfinding (Polynesia) (2)
The Glory of Rome (Rome) (17)
Siberian Riches (Russia) (15) +1 *
Father Governs Children (Siam) (13)
River Warlord (Songhai) (1)-2*

<<<Fifth Day, Fifth Vote>>>
*Extra production is always useful, no matter your play style. And the extra resources can be sold off for some early quick $$$.
*Songhai forces you into a certain play style, and honestly, neither of its abilities are really that good

 

[TM Moot]

Trade Caravans (Arabia) (5)
Sacrificial Captives (Aztecs) (15)
Ingenuity (Babylon) (21)
Art of War (China) (11)
Viking Fury (Denmark) (9)
Monument Builders (Egypt) (4)
Ancien Régime (France) (20)
Furor Teutonicus (Germany) (11)
Hellenic League (Greece) (10)
Great Andean Road (Inca) (18)
Population Growth (India) (11)
The Great Warpath (Iroquois) (4)
Bushido (Japan) (15)
Scholars of the Jade Hall (Korea) (11)
Achaemenic Legacy (Persia) (17)
Wayfinding (Polynesia) (3) +1
The Glory of Rome (Rome) (17)
Siberian Riches (Russia) (15)
Father Governs Children (Siam) (13)
River Warlord (Songhai) (-1) -2 OUT

Wayfind is cool and a genuine boost on nearly all maps
River whatnot is all a bit meh

 

[ShahJahanII]

Trade Caravans (Arabia) (5)
Sacrificial Captives (Aztecs) (15)
Ingenuity (Babylon) (21)
Art of War (China) (11)
Viking Fury (Denmark) (9)
Monument Builders (Egypt) (4)
Ancien Régime (France) (19)
Furor Teutonicus (Germany) (11)
Hellenic League (Greece) (10)
Great Andean Road (Inca) (18)
Population Growth (India) (11)
The Great Warpath (Iroquois) (4)
Bushido (Japan) (15)
Scholars of the Jade Hall (Korea) (12)
Achaemenic Legacy (Persia) (17)
Wayfinding (Polynesia) (3)
The Glory of Rome (Rome) (17)
Siberian Riches (Russia) (15)
Father Governs Children (Siam) (13)

I have started a game with Korea and must say I have really enjoyed it.The boost in research is great with a few wonders in the capital, and a lot of specialists can be really useful.

(Here comes the criticism from the French fanboys) I really don't like Ancien Regime. 2 per city is useless since it doesn't outweigh the fact that each city increases policy costs. I really prefer Persia or Polynesia (often Siam, India, but rarely France) for cultural victories. France excels in early game culture and mid-game military, but those abilities last for such a short period of time that they don't make much of a difference.

 

[Poomermon]

(Here comes the criticism from the French fanboys) I really don't like Ancien Regime. 2 per city is useless since it doesn't outweigh the fact that each city increases policy costs. I really prefer Persia or Polynesia (often Siam, India, but rarely France) for cultural victories. France excels in early game culture and mid-game military, but those abilities last for such a short period of time that they don't make much of a difference.

Since you asked for it I don't like france for culture victories but for the speed-up the early culture gives you. As you said france is at its best in early game culture and mid-game military and that is the most important part of the game. With liberty all new cities produce 3 with no extra investment. Even with increased policy costs France can pretty much expand without worry. Sure the new policies come a little slower but what are you going to do? Not expand? Long story short just try France with liberty tree and see how much early policies can speed up your game.

Trade Caravans (Arabia) (3) -2
Sacrificial Captives (Aztecs) (15)
Ingenuity (Babylon) (21)
Art of War (China) (11)
Viking Fury (Denmark) (9)
Monument Builders (Egypt) (4)
Ancien Régime (France) (19) +1
Furor Teutonicus (Germany) (11)
Hellenic League (Greece) (10)
Great Andean Road (Inca) (18)
Population Growth (India) (11)
The Great Warpath (Iroquois) (4)
Bushido (Japan) (15)
Scholars of the Jade Hall (Korea) (12)
Achaemenic Legacy (Persia) (17)
Wayfinding (Polynesia) (3)
The Glory of Rome (Rome) (17)
Siberian Riches (Russia) (15)
Father Governs Children (Siam) (13)

France: see above. Also since ShahJahanII only took one point from Ancien Régime I left it at 19.

Arabia: Still an crappy UA.

 

[civnoob13]

(Here comes the criticism from the French fanboys) I really don't like Ancien Regime. 2 per city is useless since it doesn't outweigh the fact that each city increases policy costs.

Every new city costs 15% extra culture. So, with France, for expansion to slow down SP acquisition you'd need for 2 culture to be less than 15% of your empire's total culture. That means that you'd need 13.33 base culture for it to be bad to expand. That will never happen in early game and as long as your three or four core cities remain with a good culture level then the french UA is absolutely fantastic early-game (the most important period).

That said, I prefer Inca's UA because it is more fun and makes the game feel more unique.

Trade Caravans (Arabia) (3)
Sacrificial Captives (Aztecs) (15)
Ingenuity (Babylon) (21)
Art of War (China) (11)
Viking Fury (Denmark) (7) -2
Monument Builders (Egypt) (4)
Ancien Régime (France) (19)
Furor Teutonicus (Germany) (11)
Hellenic League (Greece) (10)
Great Andean Road (Inca) (19) +1
Population Growth (India) (11)
The Great Warpath (Iroquois) (4)
Bushido (Japan) (15)
Scholars of the Jade Hall (Korea) (12)
Achaemenic Legacy (Persia) (17)
Wayfinding (Polynesia) (3)
The Glory of Rome (Rome) (17)
Siberian Riches (Russia) (15)
Father Governs Children (Siam) (13)

 

[Raneman]

Trade Caravans (Arabia) (1) -2
Sacrificial Captives (Aztecs) (15)
Ingenuity (Babylon) (21)
Art of War (China) (11)
Viking Fury (Denmark) (7)
Monument Builders (Egypt) (4)
Ancien Régime (France) (19)
Furor Teutonicus (Germany) (11)
Hellenic League (Greece) (10)
Great Andean Road (Inca) (19)
Population Growth (India) (11)
The Great Warpath (Iroquois) (4)
Bushido (Japan) (15)
Scholars of the Jade Hall (Korea) (12)
Achaemenic Legacy (Persia) (17)
Wayfinding (Polynesia) (3)
The Glory of Rome (Rome) (17)
Siberian Riches (Russia) (15)
Father Governs Children (Siam) (14) +1

The bonus simply isn't big enough.
Getting tons of from city states is useful, and is too!

 

[basta]

Trade Caravans (Arabia) (0)
Sacrificial Captives (Aztecs) (15)
Ingenuity (Babylon) (21)
Art of War (China) (11)
Viking Fury (Denmark) (7)
Monument Builders (Egypt) (4)
Ancien Régime (France) (19)
Furor Teutonicus (Germany) (11)
Hellenic League (Greece) (10)
Great Andean Road (Inca) (19)
Population Growth (India) (12) +1
The Great Warpath (Iroquois) (4)
Bushido (Japan) (15)
Scholars of the Jade Hall (Korea) (12)
Achaemenic Legacy (Persia) (17)
Wayfinding (Polynesia) (3)
The Glory of Rome (Rome) (17)
Siberian Riches (Russia) (15)
Father Governs Children (Siam) (14)

Arabia's deservedly gone; a really weak UA

India deserves to be much higher--you can puppet the world and never worry about taking a happiness hit. I don't think I ever built a colosseum until after turn 130--this is wildly powerful for domination games.

 

[aatami]

Sacrificial Captives (Aztecs) (15)
Ingenuity (Babylon) (22)
Art of War (China) (11)
Viking Fury (Denmark) (5)
Monument Builders (Egypt) (4)
Ancien Régime (France) (19)
Furor Teutonicus (Germany) (11)
Hellenic League (Greece) (10)
Great Andean Road (Inca) (19)
Population Growth (India) (12)
The Great Warpath (Iroquois) (4)
Bushido (Japan) (15)
Scholars of the Jade Hall (Korea) (12)
Achaemenic Legacy (Persia) (17)
Wayfinding (Polynesia) (3)
The Glory of Rome (Rome) (17)
Siberian Riches (Russia) (15)
Father Governs Children (Siam) (14)

 

[Raneman]

Sacrificial Captives (Aztecs) (15)
Ingenuity (Babylon) (22)
Art of War (China) (11)
Viking Fury (Denmark) (5)
Monument Builders (Egypt) (4)
Ancien Régime (France) (19)
Furor Teutonicus (Germany) (11)
Hellenic League (Greece) (10)
Great Andean Road (Inca) (19)
Population Growth (India) (12)
The Great Warpath (Iroquois) (4)
Bushido (Japan) (15)
Scholars of the Jade Hall (Korea) (12)
Achaemenic Legacy (Persia) (17)
Wayfinding (Polynesia) (3)
The Glory of Rome (Rome) (17)
Siberian Riches (Russia) (15)
Father Governs Children (Siam) (14)

You didn't give your reasons, so your votes didn't count.

Sacrificial Captives (Aztecs) (15)
Ingenuity (Babylon) (21)
Art of War (China) (11)
Viking Fury (Denmark) (7)
Monument Builders (Egypt) (4)
Ancien Régime (France) (19)
Furor Teutonicus (Germany) (11)
Hellenic League (Greece) (10)
Great Andean Road (Inca) (19)
Population Growth (India) (12) +1
The Great Warpath (Iroquois) (4)
Bushido (Japan) (15)
Scholars of the Jade Hall (Korea) (12)
Achaemenic Legacy (Persia) (17)
Wayfinding (Polynesia) (3)
The Glory of Rome (Rome) (17)
Siberian Riches (Russia) (15)
Father Governs Children (Siam) (14)

Use this one instead, guys.

 

[civnoob13]

Could we have a list of the rankings so far if its not too much trouble?

 

[Raneman]

24. Sun Never Sets (England) // first one down is naval?
23. Barbary Corsairs (Ottomans) // and second on, take note, Firaxis.
22. Manifest Destiny (America) // Gets a little bit better with the current patch, IIRC.
21. Mongol Terror (Mongolia) // KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN
20. Seven Cities of Gold (Spain) // Nobody expects... aw hell, everyone expected this luck-based trash to be eliminated
19. River Warlord (Songhai) // No comment. It's partially naval, I guess.
18. Trade Caravans (Arabia) // Spot the pun: 1001 Camel Archers (first person to get the joke gets -3 on their next down vote.)

 

[civnoob13]

cheers (and no idea about the pun )

 

[Maniac]

1001 Arabian Nights -> Arabian Knights == Camel Archers

 

[JWAT44]

Sacrificial Captives (Aztecs) (15)
Ingenuity (Babylon) (21)
Art of War (China) (11)
Viking Fury (Denmark) (7)
Monument Builders (Egypt) (4)
Ancien Régime (France) (19)
Furor Teutonicus (Germany) (11)
Hellenic League (Greece) (10)
Great Andean Road (Inca) (19)
Population Growth (India) (12)
The Great Warpath (Iroquois) (2) -2
Bushido (Japan) (15)
Scholars of the Jade Hall (Korea) (12)
Achaemenic Legacy (Persia) (17)
Wayfinding (Polynesia) (3)
The Glory of Rome (Rome) (18) +1
Siberian Riches (Russia) (15)
Father Governs Children (Siam) (14)


iroquois: the great warpath is totally useless without a huge expanse of forest and really isnt that great with a large forest

rome: the glory of rome is always very helpful no matter how you are playing (especially on epic or marathon) unless you are doing the one city challenge in which case you picked the wrong civ if you picked rome

 

[CIV5SUCKS]

Sacrificial Captives (Aztecs) (15)
Ingenuity (Babylon) (21)
Art of War (China) (11)
Viking Fury (Denmark) (7)
Monument Builders (Egypt) (4)
Ancien Régime (France) (19)
Furor Teutonicus (Germany) (11)
Hellenic League (Greece) (10)
Great Andean Road (Inca) (19)
Population Growth (India) (13) (+1)
The Great Warpath (Iroquois) (2)
Bushido (Japan) (15)
Scholars of the Jade Hall (Korea) (12)
Achaemenic Legacy (Persia) (17)
Wayfinding (Polynesia) (1) -2
The Glory of Rome (Rome) (18)
Siberian Riches (Russia) (15)
Father Governs Children (Siam) (14)

India: Very useful bonus, city happiness is minor when compared to population unhappiness.

Polynesia: Just so water based, it is good on water maps, but just.. Meh all around.

 

[TopGearFanatic]

Sacrificial Captives (Aztecs) (15)
Ingenuity (Babylon) (21)
Art of War (China) (11)
Viking Fury (Denmark) (7)
Monument Builders (Egypt) (4)
Ancien Régime (France) (20)
Furor Teutonicus (Germany) (11)
Hellenic League (Greece) (10)
Great Andean Road (Inca) (19)
Population Growth (India) (13)
The Great Warpath (Iroquois) (0)
Bushido (Japan) (15)
Scholars of the Jade Hall (Korea) (12)
Achaemenic Legacy (Persia) (17)
Wayfinding (Polynesia) (1)
The Glory of Rome (Rome) (18)
Siberian Riches (Russia) (15)
Father Governs Children (Siam) (14)

French bonus gives a great boost in the beginning that can have profound effects in the late game, too.

Iroquois is terrible without trees, which can be destroyed.

18. Trade Caravans (Arabia) // Spot the pun: 1001 Camel Archers (first person to get the joke gets -3 on their next down vote.)

That's not even a pun, that's just a reference; nor can you just change the rules at will.

 

[Maniac]

Sacrificial Captives (Aztecs) (15)
Ingenuity (Babylon) (21)
Art of War (China) (11)
Viking Fury (Denmark) (7)
Monument Builders (Egypt) (4)
Ancien Régime (France) (20)
Furor Teutonicus (Germany) (11)
Hellenic League (Greece) (10)
Great Andean Road (Inca) (19)
Population Growth (India) (13)
Bushido (Japan) (12)
Scholars of the Jade Hall (Korea) (12)
Achaemenic Legacy (Persia) (18)
Wayfinding (Polynesia) (1)
The Glory of Rome (Rome) (18)
Siberian Riches (Russia) (15)
Father Governs Children (Siam) (14)

Day 6

Persia: I like how butter leads to guns, made more interesting by the various means you can get a golden age
Japan: in general I prefer eonomic boni over military boni. Of the military boni Bushido seems to me not the least powerful, but the most boring, in the sense that it changes the least the way one plays the game

 

[civnoob13]

Sacrificial Captives (Aztecs) (15)
Ingenuity (Babylon) (21)
Art of War (China) (11)
Viking Fury (Denmark) (7)
Monument Builders (Egypt) (4)
Ancien Régime (France) (20)
Furor Teutonicus (Germany) (11)
Hellenic League (Greece) (10)
Great Andean Road (Inca) (20) +1
Population Growth (India) (13)
Bushido (Japan) (12)
Scholars of the Jade Hall (Korea) (12)
Achaemenic Legacy (Persia) (18)
Wayfinding (Polynesia) (-1) -2
The Glory of Rome (Rome) (18)
Siberian Riches (Russia) (15)
Father Governs Children (Siam) (14)

Wayfinding is just really dull. On half of the maps it is almost completely useless and on the maps where it is useful you just feel like you are cheating because it is so OP. I love Moai Statues though. The Incan UA on the other hand has great synergy with the leader screen and the UI and is also just a great UA. The lack of movement penalties on hills makes the civilization feel very unique and is a very useful attribute for early scouting and when in war. But much better is the road maintenance decrease. You will be paying, at the very least, half for road maintenance. This means a stronger economy, especially early-game and especially when you are building trade routes but haven't connected them yet (when I am frequently in the red).

 

[void_genesis]

Sacrificial Captives (Aztecs) (15)
Ingenuity (Babylon) (21)
Art of War (China) (11)
Viking Fury (Denmark) (7)
Monument Builders (Egypt) (4)
Ancien Régime (France) (20)
Furor Teutonicus (Germany) (11)
Hellenic League (Greece) (10)
Great Andean Road (Inca) (20)
Population Growth (India) (13)
Bushido (Japan) (12)
Scholars of the Jade Hall (Korea) (12)
Achaemenic Legacy (Persia) (19)+1
The Glory of Rome (Rome) (16) -2
Siberian Riches (Russia) (15)
Father Governs Children (Siam) (14)

I'm voting mostly on what makes playing the most fun, not just the strongest ability.

Persia- The dynamics of regular golden ages adds a lot of fun as they come and go. The GA military advantage means you have to time your wars carefully.

Rome- The flat production bonus is boring so long as the capital is ahead of your endless ICS spam.

Agree China's UA is a bit meh (probably good to balance the rest being strong). They could make it more interesting by making the spawn rate and bonus per general the usual rate but make the effect stackable. That way there would be a reward and strategy in using lots of them.

Germany and Ottomans are very fun in Thals Balanced Combined mod now (probably where the patch got its idea to improve Germany). Hopefully England will get some attention next.

And out of interest here is a sorted list
Ingenuity (Babylon) (21)
Ancien Régime (France) (20)
Great Andean Road (Inca) (20)
Achaemenic Legacy (Persia) (19)
The Glory of Rome (Rome) (16)
Siberian Riches (Russia) (15)
Sacrificial Captives (Aztecs) (15)
Father Governs Children (Siam) (14)
Population Growth (India) (13)
Bushido (Japan) (12)
Scholars of the Jade Hall (Korea) (12)
Art of War (China) (11)
Furor Teutonicus (Germany) (11)
Hellenic League (Greece) (10)
Viking Fury (Denmark) (7)
Monument Builders (Egypt) (4)

 

[ShahJahanII]

Ingenuity (Babylon) (21)
Ancien Régime (France) (19)
Great Andean Road (Inca) (20)
Achaemenic Legacy (Persia) (19)
The Glory of Rome (Rome) (16)
Siberian Riches (Russia) (15)
Sacrificial Captives (Aztecs) (15)
Father Governs Children (Siam) (14)
Population Growth (India) (13)
Bushido (Japan) (12)
Scholars of the Jade Hall (Korea) (13)
Art of War (China) (11)
Furor Teutonicus (Germany) (11)
Hellenic League (Greece) (10)
Viking Fury (Denmark) (7)
Monument Builders (Egypt) (4)

I am almost done with my Korea game (Prince, Continents, Standard speed,Standard Map Size) and I must say it is an excellent ability. I barely got to use the Hwacha and Turtle Ship because their respective era's went by too fast.

Ancién Regime is not very useful IMO. If you go for a cultural victory with 3-5 cities, it gives 6-10 , not very useful at all. And it only lasts untill steam power. If I wanted to expand, I would pick a civ like Rome or Russia that was good at it. The Songhai's UB, the Mud Pyramid Mosque gives 4 per city that it is built it, with no maintenance cost! If you get Philosophy early and build these in all your cities, you will have an ability better than France. Another strategy is yo build monuments in all cities, adopt the Tradition policy that gives you a free culture building in each city, and you immediately have these in 4 cities.