Uber

[Commodore]

I just wanted to start a discussion of services like Uber, Lyft, and SideCar. For those who are not aware, these services are app-based and allow users to request rides from other users who are registered as drivers to get them wherever they need to go. Of course, the driver gets paid as well, just like a conventional taxi driver would. These services have caught on like wildfire, and have greatly reduced the need for taxi conventional taxi services in the cities in which they operate.

As you can imagine though, this service is not without its controversies. Taxi companies and limo services all over the world have lobbied their governments to either ban or regulate services like Uber. Now despite the myriad arguments they make for wanting the government to take such actions, the real reason they want Uber banned is because it is driving them out of business. The convenience of such services is something that just cannot be matched by conventional taxi services. Think about it, with a service like Uber, you don't have to worry about whether or not you will be able to find a taxi when you need it and you don't have to worry about carrying cash with you to pay the driver since these services automatically bill your credit card upon completion of the trip.

Now the main thing I want to discuss in this thread is why we should or shouldn't embrace these new types of transportation services? It seems to me like the free market has spoken and the success of these new services shows that the people prefer them to conventional taxis. If that's the case, then why should we let conventional taxi drivers and companies stand in the way of progress just so they can selfishly hold on to their livelihoods?

DISCLAIMER: For the sake of full disclosure in this topic, I must admit that I am a driver for Uber, so my opinions on the matter most certainly cannot be 100% objective and unbiased.

 

[Kozmos]

So you can and drive people around and get paid while avoiding a lot of regulation associated with operating a sanctioned taxi?

 

[Commodore]

So you can and drive people around and get paid while avoiding a lot of regulation associated with operating a sanctioned taxi?

More or less. I like to think of it as a digital version of someone trying to "bum a ride" off of you. Except with this there is a company that acts as a middle-man by hooking up people who need rides with people who have cars and ensuring those who have the cars are fairly compensated for their time and effort.

 

[Kozmos]

More or less. I like to think of it as a digital version of someone trying to "bum a ride" off of you. Except with this there is a company that acts as a middle-man by hooking up people who need rides with people who have cars and ensuring those who have the cars are fairly compensated for their time and effort.

I don't know what to think about that. On one hand, hey we're connecting people on the other a lot of people with questionable driving skills and vehicles are serving as quasi-taxis. Uber hasn't really arrived here, but I haven't had a problem with the local taxi companies here because they also have apps, reward programs, all drivers drive carefully cause they are driving company cars and are paid a fixed amount. The off-brand city taxies usually have all the crazy drivers.

 

[Commodore]

I don't know what to think about that. On one hand, hey we're connecting people on the other a lot of people with questionable driving skills and vehicles are serving as quasi-taxis. Uber hasn't really arrived here, but I haven't had a problem with the local taxi companies here because they also have apps, reward programs, all drivers drive carefully cause they are driving company cars and are paid a fixed amount. The off-brand city taxies usually have all the crazy drivers.

Well Uber does have a rating system so riders can rate drivers and drivers can rate riders. If your rating slips below a certain threshold as either a driver or rider then you lose access to the app. So that's how they sort of police themselves and ensure quality service.

 

[Kozmos]

Well Uber does have a rating system so riders can rate drivers and drivers can rate riders. If your rating slips below a certain threshold as either a driver or rider then you lose access to the app. So that's how they sort of police themselves and ensure quality service.

I have heard that but I wonder how easy it is to game the security in place. What do you need to get access, just a phone and an app? Is there vetting of any kind?

 

[Commodore]

I have heard that but I wonder how easy it is to game the security in place. What do you need to get access, just a phone and an app? Is there vetting of any kind?

They do a background check on drivers and riders, but I have no idea how extensive the check is. My guess though would be that it is not a particularly intense check given how fast I received approval to start driving once I provided the required documents.

 

[Bamspeedy]

And why cant traditional taxi drivers also sign on as Uber drivers? Or is the profit margin much lower?

 

[Joecoolyo]

because it is driving them out of business.

I'm a bit directionless on this issue as well. Uber seems to be straddling the median on this one, between "bum a ride off a friend" and actual taxi service. I'd lean towards taxi though, just because money is involved. And it really isn't fare that Uber drivers skip all the red light bureaucracy that real taxis companies/drivers have to go through, which I assume are costly. Only serves to rubber it in.

Those regulations serve a purpose, not only with the safety of the driver, but liability as well. Uber has tread lightly on this, at least in my opinion. The cases of rape in India seemed to have been muffled, and with a simple rating system how can Uber catch people who will abuse the service beforehand?

Now that I think about it, I think I side with the taxis on this one. It's a two way street, and Uber needs to shoulder the same burden of regulation other taxis do. Fender-bending the rules to their own liking by keeping their actual global-position vague is just asking for trouble, and runs-over the laws put in place. I mean, there is a reason for those laws right, they weren't hatched out of nowhere? If this continues down the same road as it is, I think the chance it will explode in Uber's face will increase, as someone is going to abuse it and the public will feel threatened. By not accepting regulation now, Uber is going to get scrapped in the future.

 

[Quintillus]

My opinion is split. On the one hand, it's kind of cool. You can call up Uber or Lyft and get a convenient lift, often at more reasonable rates. And, with many of the regular taxi drivers I've had being crazier than most of the regular people I've rode with, if anything I'm less confident of regular taxi drivers than the average driver (largely because they tend to take higher risks).

On the other hand, the loose regulations do raise questions. One is reliability and driving skill. As mentioned, for safety-of-driving I have little confidence in regular taxis. For reliability, Uber and Lyft seem questionable to me. I heard someone talking this summer about how for the second time in a row her Uber driver was running quite late, and this time he was driving in the complete opposite direction of where he should have been. On the other hand, I've had taxis arrive half an hour early, which is rather excessive in itself (at least they don't charge you if you still need to finish tossing stuff in bags and they got there really early). I've also had cab drivers who really didn't know the city that well - I recall one cab driver in particular who didn't know the location of a street whose Wikipedia page describes it as "a major street in Boston". While I have no doubt London's finest know The Knowledge well, I have much less confidence in the average American cabbie. So while there's probably some clueless Lyft and Uber drivers, American cabbies aren't the best competition.

The question of character is also there. I know someone who inadvertently took an unofficial cab and had a very sketchy driver, and the same could happen with Lyft and Uber if they don't do proper background checks. There's also less incentive for drivers to be classy - most cab drivers do it as their full-time job, but as I understand it most Lyft/Uber drivers do it on the side. So the costs of being dismissed are lower.

As for corporate character, I have a better opinion of Lyft than Uber. Uber's had more controversies, such as outrageous surge pricing. And in general, their management doesn't inspire confidence in me that they're an upstanding company who's really trying to make the world a better place, as opposed to primarily trying to make money. Lyft I know less about, but in this case that's a good thing. If I were to call one, I'd go with Lyft.

On the whole I don't think this sort of thing should be banned, but some regulations may be appropriate (background checks and number of traffic violations in particular). They could become an in-between between the bum-a-ride-from-a-friend and regular taxis, as Joecoolyo mentioned, similar to how minicabs are an in-between from bumming-a-ride-from-a-friend and black cabs in London.

Disclaimers: I have a relative who's a cabbie, and know someone who works for Uber (as a permanent employee, not a driver).

 

[Whomp]

We use it though we tend to über cabs since we live in the city. We have no problem getting one in less than 5 minutes. Much faster than dispatch. Taking a black car (Audi A3) to the suburbs was really cheap for some of the people I work with and they had no issues. We "car share" for a second car too.


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[warpus]

I am very against the system cab companies have set up in most north american cities. They've created a propped up artificial market that in the end isn't very kind to consumers - and in a lot of cases the cabbies as well.

Services like Uber seem like the way to go, but (and I don't really know enough about uber to comment tbh) it seems that they need more regulation hanging over their heads. I realize that drivers are vetted and rated and so on, but from what I've seen it seems that more regulation is definitely needed.

 

[innonimatu]

Uber is failing so hard on many european cities, where it can't even compete on price with traditional cab, that I wonder what is wrong with US cabs. And having a convenient phone app for calling a car, geolocaton and so on, is already being done by those cab services. It's so easy to set up such a system that this renders what Uber provides unnecessary, making it basically a leech for value. On a level market (i.e., if they don't exploit evasions of regulations such as running without paying insurance, and where cab licences are not outrageously expensive) their "drivers" can't compete on price.

Uber is also getting legally challenged in many cities/countries, but that is only the natural consequence of trying to evade said regulations with the sorry excuse of "we're a digital company".

 

[Commodore]

And why cant traditional taxi drivers also sign on as Uber drivers? Or is the profit margin much lower?

That is a question I have raised when I hear about taxi drivers say Uber is driving them out of business and threatening their jobs. My response to that is: Hey, when your cab company goes under because it can't compete with Uber, just switch over and become an Uber driver.

Uber is failing so hard on many european cities, where it can't even compete on price with traditional cab, that I wonder what is wrong with US cabs. And having a convenient phone app for calling a car, geolocaton and so on, is already being done by those cab services. It's so easy to set up such a system that this renders what Uber provides unnecessary, making it basically a leech for value. On a level market (i.e., if they don't exploit evasions of regulations such as running without paying insurance, and where cab licences are not outrageously expensive) their "drivers" can't compete on price.

Uber is also getting legally challenged in many cities/countries, but that is only the natural consequence of trying to evade said regulations with the sorry excuse of "we're a digital company".

See, I don't think Uber should be subject to the same regulations as a taxi company since they don't actually hire any drivers or maintain their own fleet of vehicles. In fact, the only service they provide is the app.

And what do you have against Uber anyway? I see it as a great solution for the long-term unemployed (which is a problem here in the US) to earn some money and keep the bills paid until they can find a better job.

 

[Zelig]

I don't know what to think about that. On one hand, hey we're connecting people on the other a lot of people with questionable driving skills and vehicles are serving as quasi-taxis. Uber hasn't really arrived here, but I haven't had a problem with the local taxi companies here because they also have apps, reward programs, all drivers drive carefully cause they are driving company cars and are paid a fixed amount. The off-brand city taxies usually have all the crazy drivers.

In my experience, legit taxi company drivers have pretty questionable driving skills.

 

[Hygro]

Uber is a taxi service, no question about it.

I've been using Uber a lot the past couple months as my friend has been ordering them. The vehicles are nicer than cabs. The drivers tend to drive better. It's way more comfortable and convenient. Not working out paying at the end or dealing with tips is very nice. The corporate side makes me pretty uncomfortable but the driver side is sweet and I'm considering it myself. If I was ordering myself I'd be doing lyft, though.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Taxi service without the government licensing of the drivers. Since I'm pretty much a fan of taking responsibility rather than relying on some nebulous licensing body I am all for it. It's not like a guy with a taxi license is really likely to be a better driver anyway.

 

[Zelig]

Uber is a taxi service, no question about it.

I've been using Uber a lot the past couple months as my friend has been ordering them. The vehicles are nicer than cabs. The drivers tend to drive better. It's way more comfortable and convenient. Not working out paying at the end or dealing with tips is very nice. The corporate side makes me pretty uncomfortable but the driver side is sweet and I'm considering it myself. If I was ordering myself I'd be doing lyft, though.

I just never tip taxis, ever. It's not like they're going to remember me and provide worse service next time.

 

[Kozmos]

In my experience, legit taxi company drivers have pretty questionable driving skills.

Depends on the company. Like I said, companies that provide a fixed income usually have excellent drivers because they are not out chasing $$$ signs with their pedal to the metal. I steer clear from those guys when I can.

 

[jackelgull]

I'm kind of wary of Uber, because it seems like a recipe for disaster. I don't know the kind of back ground checks they have, but I fear that some criminal can slip through them and kidnap me in the taxi, or something along those lines. The potential for crime seems to be higher than a traditional taxi service at least.