Only if your respondent is expected to actually know the answers. I don't need to subscribe to Labour's self-imposed straightjacket where nothing can be suggested without having a balanced account sheet backing it up (and I shouldn't be expected to).
UK Politics VI - Will Britain Steir to Karmer Waters?
- Thread starter Arakhor
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Only if your respondent is expected to actually know the answers. I don't need to subscribe to Labour's self-imposed straightjacket where nothing can be suggested without having a balanced account sheet backing it up (and I shouldn't be expected to).
FPTP has traditionally helped the tories, hence the "most successful party ever" moniker they claim. A threat from the far right is a real threat. They cannot meet Farage in bigotry without losing significant support from sensible people, and they are not setup electorally to win with him taking support from the right.
Not really politics, but there is something serious and weird going on.
Victims of Bushey triple murder believed to be family of BBC commentator
A man feared to be armed with a crossbow was being hunted by armed police after three women from the same family died in a suburban home in a suspected targeted attack.
Those who died are understood to be Carol Hunt and two of her daughters. The women are understood to be the family of the BBC’s racing radio commentator, John Hunt.
One source said the women may have been held hostage for some hours before police were called.
Victims of Bushey triple murder believed to be family of BBC commentator
A man feared to be armed with a crossbow was being hunted by armed police after three women from the same family died in a suburban home in a suspected targeted attack.
Those who died are understood to be Carol Hunt and two of her daughters. The women are understood to be the family of the BBC’s racing radio commentator, John Hunt.
One source said the women may have been held hostage for some hours before police were called.
Zardnaar
Deity
Same problem on the left. The old the opposition are our rivals other leftists are the enemy.
You can win an election 1/3 times by doing nothing.
Usually post election defeat parties seem to double riwn on the case for support. The jedua then reports xyz is getting momentum (eg from low 20s up to 30ish).
It's a future leader that's going to put you back in power though in 2--3 terms.
What UK party forces you to trot out "both sides"? Didn't we all go over this in the last thread? There is no "left" that FPTP allows a representative number of seats (and therefore political leverage) in England (if not the UK).
Zardnaar
Deity
I'm saying that if there was enough of you Labour would be what you want.
If it was proportional you would have around 15% based on recent election (Greens+lib dems).
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EnglishEdward
Deity
If one wants lefty representation, one might move to Islington North
Senethro
Overlord
Zardnaar, there is no need to be so silly as to pretend FPTP works just for the sake of a petty dunk on leftists.
Zardnaar
Deity
It's real politik though.
Labours trended to the middle to win.
If they were a hard core trade unionized working man's party they wouldn't win.
Tony Blair figured that out.
Definite downside of FptP system. Even under proportional though same problem. The left would either have to trend to the middle or ally someone who did.
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I am not sure you are getting the point. Just considering England, it used to be that there were two parties on "the left" and one on the right. This disadvantaged the left, but they have sort of built voting blocks that are not too antagonistic to each other and so has managed to gain a modicum of power on occasions.
The "right" has never had to do this, and while being riven with ideological divisions has managed to maintain a coherent voting block and so managed to wield more power than anyone else for hundreds of years while never having any sort of majority support.
They are now faced with a changed landscape, where the fascists have their own party that MAY be unpalatable to the "one nation" wing of the tory party. They are really not set up to compete in a landscape where their vote is spilt between the racists and the economic right wing. This is not unique to the UK, but FPTP makes it particularly dangerous for the tories.
There is a certain irony that Brexit was largely an attempted to maintain this voting block, but may have ended up cementing its division.
Zardnaar
Deity
Yup that's now a big problem for the right. Idk what longevity Reform has though.
Step one to change things. Beat tge right senseless electoral wise. Like FDR 20 odd years. Step to move the Overton window.
Tories (or equivalent) will still win occasionally but you need to shift the 2-1 win ratio vs you instead of them.
Regardless if it's FPtP or MMP. Hey at least Subak gave a gracious concession speech unlike some.
Senethro
Overlord
Zard, I notice you don't evaluate things. Like, at all. You just say what exists (as you perceive it).
Zardnaar
Deity
I looked at the election results. UKIP didn't last for long so Reform see what happens.
I've seen parties fall down to Tory level support 3 times. They bounce back in a few years.
Labors support barely increased. Where that support came from changed.
So yes I did evaluate it. Landslide win on a very shallow margin.
That's how you win under FPtP. You don't need the most votes just more than number 2 in the right places.
And this.
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Senethro
Overlord
Is this a values-neutral hyper pragmatism or do you just not read what people post?
It's always extremely funny when someone who keeps banging on about "votes matter" decides to scaremonger PR because it gets the bad guys more votes.
It also gets the better parties more votes, and makes a coalition a more likely outcome than a single party deciding the Overton window shift for the next half a decade.
It also gets the better parties more votes, and makes a coalition a more likely outcome than a single party deciding the Overton window shift for the next half a decade.
Zardnaar
Deity
No I've been consistent for years on how to win have I not?
They lost 5 seats iic to progressive types and picked up that massive number.
I get confused because CFC keeps telling me there's no left wing parties. Lib dems and greens count?
My basic argument is the sane. There's not enough progressives anywhere in the anglophone to carry an election. If ou cater to them your going to lose votes in the middle.
Look at France they had to ally to beat the right.
Proportional will move the votes around but it's not going to change the % of popular support to much in the population.
So presumably Labour+Libdems+greens would be required to form a government. You would change the way you campaign. Wouldn't change Tory sears to much. Reform would win big a expense of Labor.
Zardnaar
Deity
Of you're a proponent of PR then yes reform deserves more votes. Al9ng with the Greens.
Your argument is the same, even when the question changes.
Zardnaar
Deity
We have several results indicating that position yes?
If you want to defeat the right then yes you're going to have to compromise or work with centrists.
That's France, UK, NZ, USA. Probably Australia and Canada.
If your goal isn't keeping the right out do whatever you want. Voters reward infighting ask the Tories and the French Left a few months ago.
