Ultimate Wishlist for potential Civ6 leaders

[IgorS]

Why isn't Anne on the English list?

 

[Zaarin]

Why isn't Anne on the English list?

Does anyone really want Anne? Like Victoria, she was a hands-off leader, but Anne wasn't nearly as famous. (Personally I'd prefer the leaders of England be limited to those who actually bore the title "King/Queen of England," which neither Anne nor Victoria did. I'd also prefer a monarch who actively ruled. That being said, I do personally find Anne more interesting than Vicky, if I had to choose between the two. She's just not someone I see people clamoring for.)

 

[Greywulf]

Is English really a priority? England already has 2 leaders.

 

[Greywulf]

Guandao, I studied your list again, and it occurred to me that while you include many unlikely candidates including peoples who didn't have agriculture or cities, you didn't include the Romani, or any Romani tribes. Not sure how they completely missed out on being in the list, as they've been discussed in depth before and I think someone even made a mod at some point (granted, the Romani would be a blob civ, but you have listed blob civs too).

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/romani-civilization-feasible-controversial.628139/

 

[Zaarin]

I really can't imagine many cultures that would be less viable as a civ than the Romani. They were never more than a minority population in other domains.

 

[IgorS]

Does anyone really want Anne? Like Victoria, she was a hands-off leader, but Anne wasn't nearly as famous. (Personally I'd prefer the leaders of England be limited to those who actually bore the title "King/Queen of England," which neither Anne nor Victoria did. I'd also prefer a monarch who actively ruled. That being said, I do personally find Anne more interesting than Vicky, if I had to choose between the two. She's just not someone I see people clamoring for.)

This is not about whether someone wants her or not, it is about compiling a list of possible leader options. I mean, look at the leaders list on the front page, there are all kinds of leaders, regardless of popularity. I just find it weird that Mary I and Mary II are there, and Anne, who was queen during the formation of Great Britain and one of England's golden ages (Defoe, Newton, etc.), is not.

 

[Zaarin]

This is not about whether someone wants her or not, it is about compiling a list of possible leader options. I mean, look at the leaders list on the front page, there are all kinds of leaders, regardless of popularity. I just find it weird that Mary I and Mary II are there, and Anne, who was queen during the formation of Great Britain and one of England's golden ages (Defoe, Newton, etc.), is not.

Fair. I haven't looked at the list in a long time, but I've never seen anyone ask for Anne (or Mary II, for that matter...).

 

[IgorS]

Well, I wouldn't mind seeing Anne (not in Civ VI, but in a future installment of the series), if we are looking for a never before used female leader.

 

[Zaarin]

Well, I wouldn't mind seeing Anne (not in Civ VI, but in a future installment of the series), if we are looking for a never before used female leader.

I'd rather have Elizabeth I back, but if the goal is to choose someone new I'd still rather have Empress Matilda or Mary I.

 

[Greywulf]

I really can't imagine many cultures that would be less viable as a civ than the Romani. They were never more than a minority population in other domains.

I understand where you are coming from, and generally speaking "civilizations" do have a certain level of criteria to meet, even for this game. That being said, I studied the list and found that there are many civs listed that don't really fit a civilization in the traditional sense either, including nomadic groups, peoples who never founded a city, peoples without well known historical leaders, and even including people who barely had agriculture or even didn't use agriculture at all, so I don't think that the Romani blob civ are that far fetched along side so many other civs included in the list. Romani people have a huge population (Europe's largest minority), as well as the tribes that live in North Africa, the Middle East, tribes that still live in the Indian subcontinent, and decent sized populations that live in the Americas, and other parts of the world. The Romani have been very influential, from transforming the Flamenco dance, to influencing the English language (ever called someone your "pal", or asked for a "lollipop"? Those are from Romany language words). So if we are going to include other interesting ideas for civs (some of which I think are very cool ideas, by the way), such as the Inuit, the Nenets, the Sami, the Sioux, the Ainu, the Berbers, the Huns, the Caribs, the Arawak, the Noongar, the Murri, etc., then yes, the Romani are also a viable people to list. If all those others are being listed, then why not list the Romani too?

 

[Zaarin]

So if we are going to include other interesting ideas for civs (some of which I think are very cool ideas, by the way), such as the Inuit, the Nenets, the Sami, the Sioux, the Ainu, the Berbers, the Huns, the Caribs, the Arawak, the Noongar, the Murri, etc., then yes, the Romani are also a viable people to list. If all those others are being listed, then why not list the Romani too?

Well, first of all, I don't think stone age hunter-gatherers like the Inuit or the Noongar are viable in the first place, but secondly, as I mentioned, the Romani have never existed independently of other civilizations.

 

[AaronTBD]

Well, first of all, I don't think stone age hunter-gatherers like the Inuit or the Noongar are viable in the first place, but secondly, as I mentioned, the Romani have never existed independently of other civilizations.

This discussion kinda reminds me of my relatively controversial “What makes a civilization” Thread where most people said that the word ‘civilization,’ at least for civ, just a word for a culture

 

[Greywulf]

Well, first of all, I don't think stone age hunter-gatherers like the Inuit or the Noongar are viable in the first place, but secondly, as I mentioned, the Romani have never existed independently of other civilizations.

Well, the Romani have a long and complicated history, and depending on the tribe, they have been warriors, mercenaries, slaves, entertainers, craftsmen, merchants, and many other things. There's a lot to talk about, but I do understand what you mean here. The main argument here is that next to those other civ ideas listed, they can be considered; it's a case of why have these and not those. I think that there are other benefits as well, such as potential niche civs (certainly the Inuit would be very niche), unique play styles, and cases like the Romani, perhaps even a method to help overcome all the racism...Not that that is a guarantee, but I do think that big games like Civilization VI can have a lot of influence on people too.

 

[Zaarin]

Well, the Romani have a long and complicated history, and depending on the tribe, they have been warriors, mercenaries, slaves, entertainers, craftsmen, merchants, and many other things. There's a lot to talk about, but I do understand what you mean here. The main argument here is that next to those other civ ideas listed, they can be considered; it's a case of why have these and not those. I think that there are other benefits as well, such as potential niche civs (certainly the Inuit would be very niche), unique play styles, and cases like the Romani, perhaps even a method to help overcome all the racism...Not that that is a guarantee, but I do think that big games like Civilization VI can have a lot of influence on people too.

I think they'd be a great candidate for inclusion if a future iteration of Civ included ethnic groups, which is something I'd love to see. I think the monolithic approach to culture that Civ5 and Civ6 take is...strange; it certainly doesn't mirror any civilization that has existed in the real world. I thought Endless Space 2 handled the idea of minority populations well (though please don't take the model literally, Firaxis--giving special abilities to populations by ethnic type is just begging for trouble).

 

[Greywulf]

I think they'd be a great candidate for inclusion if a future iteration of Civ included ethnic groups, which is something I'd love to see. I think the monolithic approach to culture that Civ5 and Civ6 take is...strange; it certainly doesn't mirror any civilization that has existed in the real world. I thought Endless Space 2 handled the idea of minority populations well (though please don't take the model literally, Firaxis--giving special abilities to populations by ethnic type is just begging for trouble).

I really like where you are going with this, which is actually not far fetched from my idea of improving barbarians to be more than mere mindless attack bots or "sub-humans", but to be more like minor groups that one can communicate and trade with (actually, barbarians have so much potential that it's amazing that they haven't really done anything with them, but that's another story). Ethnic minorities could fill a niche in the in between, which I think would create a more organic and sophisticated system that would more closely mimic actual human history. I think that sort of thing would nicely tick that box of inclusion, though part of me is also worried about the potential for stereotypes, and would ask questions that may be controversial, even surprisingly so to people unfamiliar with the ethnicities being added; take for instance the Sami, and the question of attaching them to raindeer...Some Sami people don't like this stereotype. In regards to the Romani blob group specifically, I certainly couldn't imagine a worse conclusion than being stereotyped as thieves, which would only feed the already overwhelmingly present stigma.

 

[IgorS]

A few more options not yet on the list:
Blanche (French)
Cimon (Greeks)
Turhan Sultan (Turks)
Agrippina (Romans)
Julia Domna (Romans)
Nabu-apla-iddina (Babylonians)

 

[Lord of War N02]

Arabia:
Turki bin Abdullah bin Muhammad
al-Aziz Billah
Badr al-Jamali
Al-Mansur Qalawun
Al-Nasir Muhammad
Barquq
Yahya Muhammad Hamid ed-Din
Al-Mu'ayyad Muhammad
Al-Hadi ila'l-Haqq Yahya
Al-Harith ibn Jabalah

Unknown
Nur ad-Din
Imad al-Din Zengi
I am not sure what to put Zengi leaders in what civ Arabia? or separated own civ

China:
Renzong of Song
Emperor Zhao of Han
Emperor Zhang of Han
Tang of Shang
Wu of Zhou
Wu Qi
Zhuang of Chu
Goujian of Yue
Daowu of Northern Wei
Xiaowen of Northern Wei
Taiwu of Northern Wei
Xianzong of Tang

 

[Lazy sweeper]

Heroes definitive list next?
Awesome job up there!!

Where is Saadi for Morocco?

 

[Guandao]

Guandao, I studied your list again, and it occurred to me that while you include many unlikely candidates including peoples who didn't have agriculture or cities, you didn't include the Romani, or any Romani tribes. Not sure how they completely missed out on being in the list, as they've been discussed in depth before and I think someone even made a mod at some point (granted, the Romani would be a blob civ, but you have listed blob civs too).

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/romani-civilization-feasible-controversial.628139/

What are possible Romani leaders? Give me one name and I will add them to the list.

 

[AaronTBD]

Congratulations Hammurabi! Your back from Civ 4!