Underdevelopped Civs?

[Mylon]

I played a FF game as the Dural decently and, having also played an Orbis game as the Scions, the Dural just felt totally underwhelming. The statues didn't seem terribly useful (free loyalty promotion? Free courage promotion?), and the best building they had was the college. I don't think it nearly made up for their lack of religion.

To that extend, what if a long hard look was taken at all of the civs and some of them were merged? Give the Kuriotates (another agnostic civ) the statues and college.

And the Sidar and their ability to settle experienced units. That could be given to another civilization. And so on. Basically condense the game down so each civ has multiple unique features and potentially multiple play styles.

The scions seem fine, and are an awesome addition to the game, but many of the basic FFH civs seem lackluster in comparison. Not necessarily in power but offering different ways to play the game.

 

[WarKirby]

Merging civs is a big no. Each has it's own unique place in the lore.

Vehem has stated in the past, that Dural and Chislev need some work, and hopefully plans to add stuff. if you have any ideas to improve them, post away.

The Sidar are perhaps lacking in visual variety, having relatively few unique units and an underwhelming hero, but they're far from a weak civ in general, and are generally considered the best all around for one-city-challenges.

 

[Mylon]

Another one that could use some love is the grigori. Again, another agnostic civ, and the only thing special they get is the adventurers, which either become eclipsed by great people or replace their great people.

I also might argue with you about each civ's place in the lore: Most games don't include every civilization at once!

 

[Vermicious Knid]

Please bear in the mind that I'm not terribly familiar with the lore except through osmosis as I play, but looking at it solely through a gaming/play balance perspective I've also felt like some of the civs could be merged. The lizardmen civs could be merged and differentiated by leader, for example. It also feels to me like there are a glut of human civs minimally distinguished by unique features...and the AI plays most of them exactly the same.

I don't want to see fewer civs necessarily....I'd just like each one of them to play and behave differently.

Makes me wish I knew thing one about python. I'd give it a shot myself.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

I'm not terribly familiar with the lore except through osmosis as I play

AHAHAHA this is the funniest phrase ive read on this forum in ages! especially considering after finishing an assignment on osmotic potential

 

[Breez]

I like the recent Civ+ Modmodmod's

They bring attention and get feedback on races. They allow folks to try out the new Ideas and Let Vehem steal the ideas he likes. These have really been fleshing out some of the lesser races.

I know Dural+ has been bantered around and my be one of the next undertakings.

 

[Valkrionn]

I played a FF game as the Dural decently and, having also played an Orbis game as the Scions, the Dural just felt totally underwhelming. The statues didn't seem terribly useful (free loyalty promotion? Free courage promotion?), and the best building they had was the college. I don't think it nearly made up for their lack of religion.

To that extend, what if a long hard look was taken at all of the civs and some of them were merged? Give the Kuriotates (another agnostic civ) the statues and college.

And the Sidar and their ability to settle experienced units. That could be given to another civilization. And so on. Basically condense the game down so each civ has multiple unique features and potentially multiple play styles.

The scions seem fine, and are an awesome addition to the game, but many of the basic FFH civs seem lackluster in comparison. Not necessarily in power but offering different ways to play the game.

Kuriotates are far from agnostic.... Vehem has said he is going to work on the Dural and Chislev, so I'd just wait. The Austrin are already amazing now, after all.

 

[ICanHasName?]

If the civs were 'done' I would totally agree, but my guess is all of a sudden a Nation+ modmodmodmodmodmod for them is going to show up and then get merged in. It sounds like a whole bunch of Austrin stuff is going to show up any time now, and alot of people are trying to figure out what to do with the Dural.

 

[Valkrionn]

Unless someone else starts doing them, the Malakim+ and Doviello+ will be the only civs to get the '+' treatment.

 

[deadliver]

Another one that could use some love is the grigori. Again, another agnostic civ, and the only thing special they get is the adventurers, which either become eclipsed by great people or replace their great people.

I also might argue with you about each civ's place in the lore: Most games don't include every civilization at once!

The only special thing they get are adventurers, lol...

 

[zup]

Adventurers might turn into an awesome strikeforce if done right. Grigori can get 4 heroic archmagi and another 4 heroic liches, 4 heroic immortals, 4 heroic knights etc etc etc. They are civ with both early and late game power. They get 2 heroes very early so their ability to kill off tough defenders is not to be underestimated. But their real potential is realized once they are casting Ardor every turn. No matter how 'polluted' your gp pool is, some adventurers will pop out. And the rest of the gp can be settled for an even more powerful economy.

 

[MrPopov]

how do you cast Ardor every turn?

 

[JimMorrison]

I also might argue with you about each civ's place in the lore: Most games don't include every civilization at once!

But they exist, and they have a reason for having the abilities/features that they do.

One of the reasons FF is so awesome, is the sheer variety of nations, and how differently many of them play. Regardless of thematic reasons for not merging nations, I am pretty sure that some nations were always sort of a "rough", and as a number of nations have had major revisitations, all those that are somehow lacking will get fleshed out in time.

 

[deadliver]

Adventurers might turn into an awesome strikeforce if done right. Grigori can get 4 heroic archmagi and another 4 heroic liches, 4 heroic immortals, 4 heroic knights etc etc etc. They are civ with both early and late game power. They get 2 heroes very early so their ability to kill off tough defenders is not to be underestimated. But their real potential is realized once they are casting Ardor every turn. No matter how 'polluted' your gp pool is, some adventurers will pop out. And the rest of the gp can be settled for an even more powerful economy.

Lol i was mocking the guy whp said that is the only thing they get.

 

[WarKirby]

The only special thing they get are adventurers, lol...

They have the museum UB too.
And Medics
and Luonnotar
and Dragon slayers (who are basically champions with Medic I)

Not a lot of unique things, granted, but bit more than just adventurers.

Also, adventurers are awesome, seriously.

I once made a party of a fighter(dragon slayer), archer(marksman), Rogue(shadow), black mage (mage) and white mage (medic)

Every single one of them a hero, and promoted uniquely. It was like wandering around with an old school rpg style party of heroes. I would have upgraded my fighter into an immortal, and my mage to an archmage, if I played that game long enough.

 

[Valkrionn]

The only thing I want for the Grigori, is allowing their Adventurers to spawn like the Awakened rather than GP.

 

[Mylon]

After having played the Jotnar to get a feel for that (and literally drowning in giantkin - I ended up declaring war just as a means to use some of them, though I'm normally a more peaceful player), I think the giantkin/awakened (and Adventurers, since it's a good idea) need their own kind of point pool, like the GPP but similar. Get rid of the random element, like a scion player getting an awakened on turn 2.

 

[WarKirby]

I like the random spawning, personally. It represents that each jotnar citizen is a single person (or giant, as the case may be). And new giants are only born when the parents are in the mood, which isn't really something that can be predicted.

 

[Valkrionn]

I like the Scion mechanic because while it is random, there are lots of ways you can influence it... Make all the buildings that currently give the Grigori Adventurer points increase the spawn rate.

 

[MrUnderhill]

As far as the Dural go, I had the idea of letting the Dural gain leader traits from the statues they build.
Dannmos would start with only Industrious and gain more traits (I'm thinking up to 2) as they go. Sort of a "build your own leader" setup.
Statue of Purity - Creative (available at Drama)
Statue of Justice - Organized (available at Code of Laws)
Statue of Faith - Spiritual (available at Priesthood)
Statue of Hope - Philosophical (available at Writing)
Statue of Diligence - Defender (available at Archery)
Statue of Prudence - Financial (available at Currency)
Statue of Charity - Expansive (available at Construction)

What do y'all think?