Underemployment and worthless college degrees

[Cheetah]

Link to video.

Your personal opinions on Peter Schiff notwithstanding, that's about two dozen real people who work with something that never needed their college degrees.

In addition to the unemployment created by the current economic problems, we've also heard a lot in the last couple of years about how many college degrees are worthless, and only burdens people with extra debt. This is usually ascribed mostly to liberal arts degrees and other soft sciences and non-sciences, but from what I can tell many STEM employers require a couple of years of experience in addition to a degree, and that experience is many times difficult to come by.

What troubled me the most about that video was the fact that there were engineers and other STEM people among those interviewed.

Are or have you been underemployed/unemployed or do you know other in that situation? Would you ascribe this merely to the current state of the economy, or do you think there is some truth to the idea that tons of people are being educated to be unemployable? Should and can anything be done about this?

 

[innonimatu]

No one is being educated to be unemployable. But the "invest in education" thing is a scam, that much is true.

 

[Loppan Torkel]

Didn't Bergen just start a recruiting campaign because they need 32000 qualified workers in, amongst other areas, engineering?

There's no doubt in my mind that it is difficult and will become harder to get jobs, even if you've got a college degree. I honestly appreciate living next to Norway. It will help us a bit during the coming job crisis.

I do believe universities should be regulated by the government a bit more though. There's no point educating tons of people if there's no possibility of work within the area.

 

[Formaldehyde]

That would clearly be a gross abuse of governmental power, even if they were paying for all the costs instead of typically none.

 

[Loppan Torkel]

So? Not all of us want a minimal state

 

[Ayatollah So]

Education isn't necessarily about work.

The reasons why most un(der)employed people are un(der)employed come down to Who You Know and/or the state of the economy. Who You Know is an absolutely craptastic way to fill positions, but I don't see any realistic way to put an end to the domination of that system.

If you want an education that will get you a job, go to charm school. Learn networking, learn How To Win Friends and Influence People.

 

[Loppan Torkel]

If you want an education that will get you a job, go to charm school. Learn networking, learn How To Win Friends and Influence People.

I suggest that people educate themselves in areas where there's a future demand for work. *cut*
Social skills are probably some of the tougher skills to learn. Also, it's not just about social skills. Looks, intelligence and health play a large role in how far you can get by networking.

 

[History_Buff]

The only purpose of a university degree is to work in that field?

That's really only what professional degrees are for.

 

[Borachio]

When I first went to University, only 10% school leavers went, and further education was free. Nowadays it's 50%, and they have to pay. Many go, I think, because there simply aren't the manufacturing jobs/apprenticeships that there used to be.

 

[Loppan Torkel]

I kind of assumed that a college degree was something more than a few years in college/university. A sort of examination degree, but the systems may be a bit different. 4,5 years in Computer Engineering for example is a professional degree then..?!

 

[The_J]

I think there's one question missing in the video: Do you like where you've ended?
Because the end result would dramatically change if everybody said "yes, did not want to work in that area, decided to come here", or "I'm totally unsatisfied with this".
At least 2 of the people have said that they've been doing whatever they were doing for longer time, and started it before they were going to college, so at least there is the chance that they might actually like it.

Else...well...I've been unemployed for more than a year with a Master's degree from the STEM area. Would find it awful to end somewhere in a bar.
Guess Ayatollah So is right at that point. Charm school could have helped. Since that would only have shifted the unemployment to somewhere/somebody else, this is sure not the ultimate reason for the whole situation.
Is it the economy? No, that field was rather academic.
Too many people studying this stuff? No, was a rather close field.
Is it maybe just like this? Not everybody will be able to work in the field in which they've studied. I guess that is just the situation. Might be that the current economy supports this, but it's not the cause of the situation. Some people are just not competent, or just unlucky. That's how it is, IMHO.

 

[innonimatu]

Who You Know is an absolutely craptastic way to fill positions, but I don't see any realistic way to put an end to the domination of that system.

Not really. In fact I dare say that for those doing the hiring Who Knows Who is the best system for hiring people when you already Know Someone. Better to hire someone whom you know is good, or who comes recommended by someone you trust, than risk the job interview and evaluation lottery.

When I first went to University, only 10% school leavers went, and further education was free. Nowadays it's 50%, and they have to pay. Many go, I think, because there simply aren't the manufacturing jobs/apprenticeships that there used to be.

The lack of good jobs appealing to young people is probably one of the reasons. The other is that going to college is now just Something You Do. Something that is expected everyone who can do it (who can pay) will do. And it's a rather convenient thing too, socially, if you consider the levels of youth unemployment...

In fact there's nothing wrong with people going through college. It seems obvious now that contemporary society does not need young people to be employed as it once did. And you might as well enjoy some "holiday" years while you're young than wait until you're 65 or so! The problem is that the economics of society haven't adapted to the high productivity and reduced work requirements of contemporary society, leading to college being peddled as a paid investment (it's really a massive occupational program for young people), to college debt (whereas retirement is somewhat regarded as a right), and so on.

Someday soon the whole model of employment, work and leisure will require a complete overhaul.

 

[illram]

I agree that Who You Know is great from the hiring angle but can be frustrating from the applicant angle. (Until you get a job from Someone You Know...)

 

[ace99]

I agree that Who You Know is great from the hiring angle but can be frustrating from the applicant angle. (Until you get a job from Someone You Know...)

This puts minorities at a tremendous disadvantage, when Some You Know is more likely to be a brother like Avon Barksdale than Obama.

 

[Zelig]

I agree that Who You Know is great from the hiring angle but can be frustrating from the applicant angle. (Until you get a job from Someone You Know...)

I'm not even sure it's that good from a hiring angle, unless it's done very carefully.

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/FindingGreatDevelopers.html

 

[History_Buff]

Else...well...I've been unemployed for more than a year with a Master's degree from the STEM area.

Honestly, the masters might be your problem. Now I don't know your work experience, but from our hiring experience, people who go from undergrad right into a masters pretty much aren't worth hiring. They tend to be extremely specialized in one area (which would be great if it happened to be the exact area we needed, but it rarely is), and generally bad at doing real work.

And I don't mean to paint all M.Sc. holders with one brush, but that has been our experience.

 

[anandus]

Completely offtopic: I don't know who that interviewer is, but he looks a bit like the Dutch minister of foreign affairs
Weird

 

[Tahuti]

Completely offtopic: I don't know who that interviewer is, but he looks a bit like the Dutch minister of foreign affairs
Weird

WTH, only upon looking at a picture of Timmermans did I realize how much he looked like Peter Schiff.

Spoiler :

 

[downtown]

Not really. In fact I dare say that for those doing the hiring Who Knows Who is the best system for hiring people when you already Know Someone. Better to hire someone whom you know is good, or who comes recommended by someone you trust, than risk the job interview and evaluation lottery.
.

Yup, that's basically it. Referrals make our clients more comfortable, and yes, it does disadvantage minorities and poors a little bit, but there really isn't much you can do about that.

As for the OP, I'll prob write more about this later, but I think the "lol librul arts' angle is overplayed (even English majors have a lower unemployment rate than people who don't go to college). I think that people who are not taking a professional degree need to be employment focused during their college experience (working during school, not just taking internships), and network more aggressively, but their education certainly isn't worthless.

Peter Schiff's anti-college crusade seems silly to me, since he wouldn't be anywhere near where he is now if he hasn't gone to Princeton.

 

[The_J]

Honestly, the masters might be your problem. Now I don't know your work experience, but from our hiring experience, people who go from undergrad right into a masters pretty much aren't worth hiring. They tend to be extremely specialized in one area (which would be great if it happened to be the exact area we needed, but it rarely is), and generally bad at doing real work.

And I don't mean to paint all M.Sc. holders with one brush, but that has been our experience.

The situation is a bit different here.
Before the change to the B.sc/M.sc system, the normal university degree needed 5 years, so the employers in general expect you to have studied 5 years, and don't really know how to deal with Bachelors.

But you're sure right on the rest, since you've hit the nail with the overspecialization for me. But since I'm now a PhD student, I guess this was not really a problem.
Like said, charm school would have helped.
Like mentioned in the recent posts, references are also the key in academia, and if you don't have them, you partially even can't apply at all. Which was also my problem (partially self inflicted). I totally see why this is necessary, but that doesn't mean that I'm happy about it.