UNGY-02 We like our people
- Thread starter ungy
- Start date
Alright, you put yourself in the middle of the roster - aparently you underestimated us, we've alreay advanced further 
So you'll play after me (and I'll either be playing this evening or early tomorrow).
Roster:
Rusten
Olodune
Pigswill - just played
Mystyfly - up now
Ungy - on deck
Melior
Silverbullet
(I should add that I usually copy those rosters from somewhere and update them)
So you'll play after me (and I'll either be playing this evening or early tomorrow).
Roster:
Rusten
Olodune
Pigswill - just played
Mystyfly - up now
Ungy - on deck
Melior
Silverbullet
(I should add that I usually copy those rosters from somewhere and update them)
That's annoying - settled on a hill nonetheless. My revised suggestion would be to settle the next city 1E of the rice; hoping to culture flip that ivory and at least getting the rice and gems. The spot will lack fresh water and it isn't a super capital now, but we really want those resources. We can claim the dye with a city 1 or 2 south of the other rice.Should've made roads into the jungle rather than pre-chopping forests. I think it's a waste to not use our seafood too, we're currently working 1 food 2 commerce tiles.
I know that we can't whip, but it would be far better to make workers instead and time the production so that the food providing production got moved into the library instead. The library would be up almost as fast and we'd have more workers for that jungle too. And even if not using that trick, it would be so much better to chop a forest for the library and assign spcialists. Seeing the unworked coastal seafood and worked coastal water without a lighthouse is really painful.
pigswill
fly (one day)
Maybe so. On the other hand we're paying unit maintenance already so more workers means more maintenance. Until we get IW there's not much for workers to do except build roads, three should be enough for now, once libraries are finished we can knock out more workers in Athens fast enough if needed.
I'm kind of neutral on that site. I don't like our chances on owning the ivory too long given Just has religion. But I hate to found w/o a food, especially with a hill gems. We block better with the more conservative site for the gems/dye--the 1e of rice site could see a Byz city through us unless we settle another probably before we would want to.
I would hustle to get another settler out and claim the marble/fish blocking site to the s--I would have done that before the lib and chopped for the lib.
As for an early war--I would hope to avoid that. We don't have overwhelming production so I think it would be very dangerous.
I don't like founding cities without food - especially early when workers are rare - especially in jungle where there are even more workers needed. For me, 1E of rice clearly wins.
Gems city followed by southern blocking city sounds fine.
I'm gonna wait with playing until tomorrow so we can discuss the exact gems-city placement.
Gems city followed by southern blocking city sounds fine.
I'm gonna wait with playing until tomorrow so we can discuss the exact gems-city placement.
I don't have a strong opinion either, but it does have a food resource (rice). Flipping the ivory would just be a bonus feature, not the reason for settling there. I'm fine either way we choose to proceed though, there are plenty of great cities/options, both passive and aggressive, not just these.
- Joined
- May 21, 2007
- Messages
- 1,083
I agree with Rusten that we should be working our "good tiles" as much as possible (that's why we put all that effort into WBs). In this case that means more workers/settlers. Unlike most games our chops should be MM'ed to go towards units/infra.
More workers will pay off quickly, and settlers are needed anyways.
Ungy's reasoning about taking the rice/dyes/gem city next makes sense to me.
More workers will pay off quickly, and settlers are needed anyways.
Ungy's reasoning about taking the rice/dyes/gem city next makes sense to me.
pigswill
fly (one day)
I guess I was worried about going broke quickly. If we're not too worried about city and unit maintenance (relying on cheap libraries and fast GS for research) then maybe its not the issue I thought it was.
Maintenance should be taken with a grain of salt this early as the cap will rise as your new cities grow. That settler is also added onto the maintenace, so it will drop once the new city is founded and Sparta grows. The coastal seafood is enough to keep us going up until the gem and from that point on scientists will shine.
Dye/rice/gem city sounds good to me.
Dye/rice/gem city sounds good to me.
Yes I think I wasn't clear--the lack of a food resource was what I didn't like about the more passive play of settling the dye/gems. I definately think our next city should be up there to claim the gems and I'm fine with 1E of the rice.
Played 15 turns, 1400BC - 875BC
IHT
Forgot to turn off BUG so restart
I leave tiles @ Athenes as they are until the Library is done.
There are 2 workers in Sparta (on skip) WTH?? One chops Athenes Lib the other builds a farm near Sparta so it no longer has to work a 2/0/1 tile...
(1) 1360BC
Chop arrives, Library now due in 1 @ Athenes
(2) 1320BC
Athenes Library > Settler
(3) 1280BC
Judaism FIDL (by Justinian who adopts OR the following turn)
(4) 1240BC
Found Corinth near Gems/Dyes. I was a bit confused this morning as both ungy and Rusten seemed to have changed their mind somewhat. Reason for this site: It is a better blocking spot, it's riverside. Disadvantage is no food of course. This city won't be cottage heaven but be pretty nice for SE: Mines for infra when needed, otherwise specs + farms.
(8) 1080BC
Athenes Settler > Worker
(10) 1000BC
Justinian researches Mathematics
(11) 975BC
Athenes Worker > Settler. Since the settler for Marble/Fish site (finishing our J-blockade) is on the way and we've got plenty of workers (4) Athenes isn't in a desperate need for production and I hire 2 scientists. Since Sparta grew to happy cap I hire 2 scientists there as well.
BTW Spartas build was Barracks > chariot..
Alphabeth in > Mysticism
I did this for several reasons: 1) I don't want to research techs the AI knows. 2) It's on the way to the GLib we definitely want (marble and lots of forests left in Athenes) and I don't trade for those cheap techs. 3) Neither KK nor Toku have it so we can trade them or gift for relations.
Note: J isn't willing to trade certain techs. He only knows us so he thinks they're monopoly. Toku isn't willing to trade, as usual.
Best deal we can get from KK atm
(13) 925BC
Protective toku is afraid of barbsies
Thebes (Marble/Fish) founded. Like Corinth, it fits perfectly for blocking, has nice ressources. I think this will be our navy-city
I also note that J failed to spread Buddhism to his border city, Nicaea, which is now Judaist Holy city. This is good for us until he builds the shrine. Until then it won't produce culture as it isn't his state religion.
(15) 875BC
Mysticism > Poly
---
RE Finances
We're pretty fine (read: not broke yet), we can surely support 1-2 cities more until gems come online. Once the Gems are online we surely can backfill those spots we haven't yet.
RE Techs
We need: IW, Sailing, Pottery, Poly, Masonry
KK gives IW + Sailing for ABC + Myst. I think we should do that. Masonry we'll have to selfresearch I'm afraid because they're probabely building the mids which can take some time.
I think KK and J have met as a mongolian WB passed N of athenes. Toku isn't likely to meet J since he can't even pass KK's borders. If we only trade with KK he might sell ABC to J so we might want to make ABC to J for Pottery + Poly + ??
Or we can wait until J + KK finish Mathematics (J in 3) and trade Maths with J.
Our land
Dotmap anyone?
There is this spot N of Athenes, a Crab/Marble spot we might want to settle if we don't want to expose our capital in case of an attack.
Note: The Chariot on the Desert Hill has sentry, very handy. This guy fogbusts the whole land on his own
Note: KK has very low score, even lower than us. That can mean that he's training lots of units. Be careful, trade for IW asap, hook up iron and build phalanxes.
Note: No religion spread so far
Note: 2 workers near Corinth (they built a farm and a mine, all they could so far) and 2 workers roading towards Thebes.
Techscreen
Our cities (Note: Both Athenes and Sparta would produce a GS in 5 turns. Academy in Athenes I guess?)
---
Roster:
Rusten
Olodune
Pigswill
Mystyfly - just played
Ungy - up now
Melior - on deck
Silverbullet
---
View attachment Ungy-02 BC-0875.CivBeyondSwordSave
IHT
Forgot to turn off BUG so restart
I leave tiles @ Athenes as they are until the Library is done.
There are 2 workers in Sparta (on skip) WTH?? One chops Athenes Lib the other builds a farm near Sparta so it no longer has to work a 2/0/1 tile...
(1) 1360BC
Chop arrives, Library now due in 1 @ Athenes
(2) 1320BC
Athenes Library > Settler
(3) 1280BC
Judaism FIDL (by Justinian who adopts OR the following turn)
(4) 1240BC
Found Corinth near Gems/Dyes. I was a bit confused this morning as both ungy and Rusten seemed to have changed their mind somewhat. Reason for this site: It is a better blocking spot, it's riverside. Disadvantage is no food of course. This city won't be cottage heaven but be pretty nice for SE: Mines for infra when needed, otherwise specs + farms.
(8) 1080BC
Athenes Settler > Worker
(10) 1000BC
Justinian researches Mathematics
(11) 975BC
Athenes Worker > Settler. Since the settler for Marble/Fish site (finishing our J-blockade) is on the way and we've got plenty of workers (4) Athenes isn't in a desperate need for production and I hire 2 scientists. Since Sparta grew to happy cap I hire 2 scientists there as well.
BTW Spartas build was Barracks > chariot..
Alphabeth in > Mysticism
I did this for several reasons: 1) I don't want to research techs the AI knows. 2) It's on the way to the GLib we definitely want (marble and lots of forests left in Athenes) and I don't trade for those cheap techs. 3) Neither KK nor Toku have it so we can trade them or gift for relations.
Note: J isn't willing to trade certain techs. He only knows us so he thinks they're monopoly. Toku isn't willing to trade, as usual.
Best deal we can get from KK atm
(13) 925BC
Protective toku is afraid of barbsies
Thebes (Marble/Fish) founded. Like Corinth, it fits perfectly for blocking, has nice ressources. I think this will be our navy-city
I also note that J failed to spread Buddhism to his border city, Nicaea, which is now Judaist Holy city. This is good for us until he builds the shrine. Until then it won't produce culture as it isn't his state religion.
(15) 875BC
Mysticism > Poly
---
RE Finances
We're pretty fine (read: not broke yet), we can surely support 1-2 cities more until gems come online. Once the Gems are online we surely can backfill those spots we haven't yet.
RE Techs
We need: IW, Sailing, Pottery, Poly, Masonry
KK gives IW + Sailing for ABC + Myst. I think we should do that. Masonry we'll have to selfresearch I'm afraid because they're probabely building the mids which can take some time.
I think KK and J have met as a mongolian WB passed N of athenes. Toku isn't likely to meet J since he can't even pass KK's borders. If we only trade with KK he might sell ABC to J so we might want to make ABC to J for Pottery + Poly + ??
Or we can wait until J + KK finish Mathematics (J in 3) and trade Maths with J.
Our land
Dotmap anyone?
There is this spot N of Athenes, a Crab/Marble spot we might want to settle if we don't want to expose our capital in case of an attack.
Note: The Chariot on the Desert Hill has sentry, very handy. This guy fogbusts the whole land on his own
Note: KK has very low score, even lower than us. That can mean that he's training lots of units. Be careful, trade for IW asap, hook up iron and build phalanxes.
Note: No religion spread so far
Note: 2 workers near Corinth (they built a farm and a mine, all they could so far) and 2 workers roading towards Thebes.
Techscreen
Our cities (Note: Both Athenes and Sparta would produce a GS in 5 turns. Academy in Athenes I guess?)
---
Roster:
Rusten
Olodune
Pigswill
Mystyfly - just played
Ungy - up now
Melior - on deck
Silverbullet
---
View attachment Ungy-02 BC-0875.CivBeyondSwordSave
I hadn't changed my mind, I just didn't have a strong opinion. I think we sorta agreed on 1E of the rice, but I'm not going to 
you for settling where you did, it's a good spot as long as it's fixed on working the commerce resources.
Having enough money in the bank is not as issue on this map, we have so many commerce resources (gold, gems and dye). Speaking of which, I don't understand why you're postponing getting IW, we want to mine that gem ASAP, it will provide 7 (!) commerce and is food neutral, it's a must-work tile. One of the reasons we went for alphabet instead of aesthetics was to make sure we could trade for IW and work those awesome gem tiles. Even if the AI gets a good deal for it we'll make up for it by working the gems sooner. You didn't play that many turns after obtaining the alphabet though, so I'll let it go for now, I trust ungy to go ahead and pull the trigger on a deal.
IMO we should settle a city claiming that southern fish and the gold next. For starters it will provide a lot of commerce (10 commerce at size 3 already - gold, coastal fish and irrigated flood plain), and secondly it will raise the happy cap even more. It will have a lot of surplus food too, so it can hire at least 2 scientists. 1S of the cow is also a good spot, but grabbing the commerce resources is more important when both city sites are safe.
I'm not too crazy about settling northwards towards Kublai. We have a nicely defendable front atm and enough space to settle 7 cities as it is. The clams are better obtained by a city 2W of them on the hill gaining the rice as well due to the location of Corinth.
There's also room for an overlap city on the southern river, I suggest we settle a city on the grassland river tile--claiming the spice and cottage the remaining flood plains. It's not going to be a very productive city, but the extra commerce is always appreciated. Its main task will be to pay the bills; that way our other cities won't have to waste food on cottages.
I'm sort of "meh" to the GL, it's a good wonder of course but there are other things to research as well. As we're Greece it might be better to open up our UB for 2 more happy faces. We're also philosophical, so getting enough GSs won't be that hard. Getting calendar online will be huge as well as we can work the dye and spice. Polytheism -> aesthetics -> literature is a pretty big detour. I would go ahead and do it right away if we knew we could trade for mathematics later, but these AIs are a bit stingy with their techs, so trading for mathematics after aesthetics might not be possible. We really need to map out more land (preferrably with 1 or 2 WBs) and get trade routes with the AIs at this point. Who knows, maybe we'll even greet Mansa Musa somewhere.
PS. Make a road to Nicea ungy (it's connected to his other cities), that way we can get Byzantine trade routes.
Basically nice turns. We've secured a lot of land and are in good shape. Extra kudos for a very detailed report (and not using BUG).
you for settling where you did, it's a good spot as long as it's fixed on working the commerce resources. Having enough money in the bank is not as issue on this map, we have so many commerce resources (gold, gems and dye). Speaking of which, I don't understand why you're postponing getting IW, we want to mine that gem ASAP, it will provide 7 (!) commerce and is food neutral, it's a must-work tile. One of the reasons we went for alphabet instead of aesthetics was to make sure we could trade for IW and work those awesome gem tiles. Even if the AI gets a good deal for it we'll make up for it by working the gems sooner. You didn't play that many turns after obtaining the alphabet though, so I'll let it go for now, I trust ungy to go ahead and pull the trigger on a deal.
IMO we should settle a city claiming that southern fish and the gold next. For starters it will provide a lot of commerce (10 commerce at size 3 already - gold, coastal fish and irrigated flood plain), and secondly it will raise the happy cap even more. It will have a lot of surplus food too, so it can hire at least 2 scientists. 1S of the cow is also a good spot, but grabbing the commerce resources is more important when both city sites are safe.
I'm not too crazy about settling northwards towards Kublai. We have a nicely defendable front atm and enough space to settle 7 cities as it is. The clams are better obtained by a city 2W of them on the hill gaining the rice as well due to the location of Corinth.
There's also room for an overlap city on the southern river, I suggest we settle a city on the grassland river tile--claiming the spice and cottage the remaining flood plains. It's not going to be a very productive city, but the extra commerce is always appreciated. Its main task will be to pay the bills; that way our other cities won't have to waste food on cottages.
I'm sort of "meh" to the GL, it's a good wonder of course but there are other things to research as well. As we're Greece it might be better to open up our UB for 2 more happy faces. We're also philosophical, so getting enough GSs won't be that hard. Getting calendar online will be huge as well as we can work the dye and spice. Polytheism -> aesthetics -> literature is a pretty big detour. I would go ahead and do it right away if we knew we could trade for mathematics later, but these AIs are a bit stingy with their techs, so trading for mathematics after aesthetics might not be possible. We really need to map out more land (preferrably with 1 or 2 WBs) and get trade routes with the AIs at this point. Who knows, maybe we'll even greet Mansa Musa somewhere.
PS. Make a road to Nicea ungy (it's connected to his other cities), that way we can get Byzantine trade routes.
Basically nice turns. We've secured a lot of land and are in good shape. Extra kudos for a very detailed report (and not using BUG).
- Joined
- May 21, 2007
- Messages
- 1,083
Nice turns, I'm very happy to see the J-front consolidated -- I'd have adjusted the Gems city, but your position will be fine as well 
Do the IW+Sailing trade!
I'd fire the Scientists in Athens as well, with all our jungle we need workers out there in larger-than-normal numbers, settlers are great too. Athens is set up to be a great Worker/Settler pump for a while yet.
I also agree with Rusten about tech. Getting Construction (cheap Odeon) and Calendar are the top economic boosting techs for us atm.
Keep an eye on Kublai -- I'd station a Chariot in his cities to watch for an offensive stack.
Edit: The road to Nicea is not important if we get sailing on the IT.
Do the IW+Sailing trade!
I'd fire the Scientists in Athens as well, with all our jungle we need workers out there in larger-than-normal numbers, settlers are great too. Athens is set up to be a great Worker/Settler pump for a while yet.
I also agree with Rusten about tech. Getting Construction (cheap Odeon) and Calendar are the top economic boosting techs for us atm.
Keep an eye on Kublai -- I'd station a Chariot in his cities to watch for an offensive stack.
Edit: The road to Nicea is not important if we get sailing on the IT.
silverbullet
King
Hi All,
Unfortunately i will not have time to play that game before Wednesday evening (Eastern standard time GMT+5). If my turn comes earlier, you can skip me on the roster this time or postpone me by 1 turn.
Thanks
Unfortunately i will not have time to play that game before Wednesday evening (Eastern standard time GMT+5). If my turn comes earlier, you can skip me on the roster this time or postpone me by 1 turn.
Thanks
I agree, that is a very good deal in this situation. It also means we'll get trade routes right away and won't have to make roads (as Olodune pointed out). 1 extra commerce in more or less every city is pretty good at this stage of the game.mystyfly said:
Agree.Olodune said:
@silverbullet;
That's no problem, I doubt you're up earlier than tuesday evening earliest, and even if you are we can wait a day
OK- general plan:
we trade for IW and sailing with KK.
Settle the city to work the gold/sw fish/1fp.
send a scout to watch KK for signs of an attack.
send another scout through Just
if we have iron hook it up, if iron affects our settling reevaluate options. I'm inclined to prioritize getting a few defensive units out and setting up on the forest block. I think we have a strong opening here and I'd be inclined to think a bit more about things that can go wrong and KK is top of my list.
Now as far as further trading and tech goes I'm a bit stuck. We want to trade for math but I don't think we'll get the chance until HG is built. Given our cheap UB I'm not sure we want to wait that long. We also have the inside track to the GL and that has some appeal as well. While I agree with Rusten that we'll get less use out of it than usual, it's still good and there's the denial benefit as well. Given our variant COL has more than the usual appeal.
We are well positioned I think for happiness-we will shortly bring 2 happy online and its possible we can trade for HR or calendar in the not too distant future.
Maybe research poly, masonry, and maybe priesthood if it looks like we have a shot at trading for HR? We also need pottery and given it's price and 2 prereq discount I'm reluctant to trade for it. So add that to the list I think.
I'll play tomorrow so chime in please.
we trade for IW and sailing with KK.
Settle the city to work the gold/sw fish/1fp.
send a scout to watch KK for signs of an attack.
send another scout through Just
if we have iron hook it up, if iron affects our settling reevaluate options. I'm inclined to prioritize getting a few defensive units out and setting up on the forest block. I think we have a strong opening here and I'd be inclined to think a bit more about things that can go wrong and KK is top of my list.
Now as far as further trading and tech goes I'm a bit stuck. We want to trade for math but I don't think we'll get the chance until HG is built. Given our cheap UB I'm not sure we want to wait that long. We also have the inside track to the GL and that has some appeal as well. While I agree with Rusten that we'll get less use out of it than usual, it's still good and there's the denial benefit as well. Given our variant COL has more than the usual appeal.
We are well positioned I think for happiness-we will shortly bring 2 happy online and its possible we can trade for HR or calendar in the not too distant future.
Maybe research poly, masonry, and maybe priesthood if it looks like we have a shot at trading for HR? We also need pottery and given it's price and 2 prereq discount I'm reluctant to trade for it. So add that to the list I think.
I'll play tomorrow so chime in please.
I was hoping to get Sailing + IW from KK and when I saw he lacked Myst I researched it in the hope of getting the deal. We get 2 important techs at once. Also the workers had at least a mine to build - but no gems mineRusten said:
Myst was no big detour and since we can trade it around I don't think its a waste of beakers. Poly > aest > lit > GL was merely a suggestion (since we have marble) but a major factor was the way to CoL.About that city site I picked: Since Imp leaders are known to... settle lots of cities I wanted to make absolutely sure he can't get his settlers past our borders. If that is a nice spot, even better so.
As I see it our main research goals are Construction, CoL and to a small extent Literature (c'mon, aest is nice trade material and lit is good to sell. Also our AIs aren't likely to research that line). I think we'll have to selfresearch CoL if we want it soon. But if we want construction, we can easily trade for it as the AI prioritises it nicely. For trading, again, would the GL-route be quite nice.ungy said:
I don't see the point in selfresearching math and construction.
BTW I believe we can trade crabs for something with KK but not sure.
I just hope to find iron already within our border so our phalanxes are ready soon. Also I remember KK mentioning he has chariots (in the diplo screen). That can mean he doesn't have copper or iron online, right? Chariots can be slaughtered easily.
- Joined
- May 21, 2007
- Messages
- 1,083
Your plan looks solid ungy.
I agree that we are in a good position in regards to happy -- but we could be in a fantastic position with either Odeons or Calendar resources. Athens in particular could take rapid advantage of higher cap space.
Edit: Since we have dyes and are creative, Drama (for cheap theatres) could be obtained earlier than usual as well -- so going through literature does hold some appeal.
I agree that we are in a good position in regards to happy -- but we could be in a fantastic position with either Odeons or Calendar resources. Athens in particular could take rapid advantage of higher cap space.
Edit: Since we have dyes and are creative, Drama (for cheap theatres) could be obtained earlier than usual as well -- so going through literature does hold some appeal.
pigswill
fly (one day)
In my limited experience AIs are happy to research construction but generally reluctant to trade it.
