UNGY6 The health nuts

On another note, we might be able to get the Kremlin still if we really want to. If we avoid completing the Palace in Lisbon I agree that Moscow could pull it off. When in a golden age the coast will yield 2H with MS, so it will add up. I was thinking we'd use this to finish the NP, but if you feel strongly about the Kremlin that's a possibility.

Personally I'm not so sure--I like the idea of ecology to remove pollution. Novelty-factor, too, pulls me towards ecology.
 
Nah, the temptation to go for Com is gone now since we almost guarantee to lost the race in current situation, therefore Kre also becomes very dangerous if Iliz or Isa win the race and they will very possibly build them with stone in hand. Hmm, build Kre for cash if we can trade Com.;)
 
I'm a bit tired now so i'll play tomorrow, my plan:

I'm going to be following most of Rusten's directions:

- go bio

- get gp for a golden age

- at least switch to theo/cristianity/fm. Do we need caste? we have libs/observatories/temples in most cities soon will we run even more specialists than 4/city. Slavery can still be useful but we don't have really urgent builds left and having the cities big is good as well so i'm not certain. Come to think of it we need caste for the sushi merchant so i'll switch to that too. The sooner we'll get sushi the better so i'll go medicine next. We'll need corporation too and probably have to self research that.Well all good things come to an end eventually even GLH. After Sushi the cities will grow much bigger so caste will still be useful.

- Build np in moscow + preserve all forests there.

Also:
- switch cap to Lisbon
- build oxford there
- Also NE?, we'll run some gp here too i guess.
- No Kremlin i think, we're not close to demo/cottaging up. We might stay with the specialists to the end especially if we'll go domination/diplo. I don't see us giving up rep anytime soon here.
 
There maybe some very good trades with Brennus in the near future. It'll annoy Izzy however, i assume i'll leave him well alone.
 
Apart from the discussion before there are some other important issues i think:

We have such good land surrounding some of our cities that they grow to the happy cap roof soon. So they'll need to be stagnated under caste with specs but this means they won't reach full potential meaning working all the good tiles and farms for a maximum number of specs to be assigned. So it's important to get buildings up that let us run specs under emancipation. Also while we're having a good reservoir of gold now we're only at 50% breaking even, so we need some gold multipliers and FP needs to be built.

Markets are golden for our current situation:
2 specs
2 happy (atm)
25% on gold

So i'm going to replace the observatories with markets whipping some of them before caste. Observatories are also good of course, We'll need some grocers for cities with lots of specs and we'll need 6 banks since we're going sushi.

With all this in mind + Rusten's recommendations i went to work.

- 1410
- Assign some 5 Markets
- trade nationalism for replaceable parts and 320 gold with Kub, not a nice deal but parts has no trade value anymore and i'd hate to self research nationalism. Kub is wfyabta now
- incense to gems with Kub

-1420
Lagos begins FP
Lisbon begins Oxford
Hold off on settling the settlers, maybe after FP or sushi when it's less costly.
2 markets whipped.
gift chemistry to Izzy, it's worthless and otherwise we'll have to gift bio later i fear.

-1430
Sal goes wheoohrn, will probably be Brennus.
Vote Izzy who is + 10 without civic/religion changes now.
Another market whipped
switch ep to Izzy, we want to see her research don't we?

-1440
Physics come on the market i can get it from Brennus for a load of old rubbish almost a free expensive tech.We'll get hit by severe modifiers with Izzya and Sal though because we'll trade a lot with Brennus. It won't run away, i need Sal for constitution and maybe Izz for Demo. Also as long we're bottom half we will always get to trade with other bottomers so i don't want the expensive physics now.

-1450-1470
GP in ( a prophet iirc). Switch GA, nothing extraordinarily happens in the meantime.
Hold off on cristianity because Sal can be useful for a couple of turns.

-1480
Bio in, trade with Liz for Steam, with Sal for constitution this gives us + 4 trade relation, at least he won't fall to annoyed after our switch to cristianity. We have coal and i send a worker to convert the windmill to mine there. I stagnate cities at happy cap with specs. I convert to cristianity.

-1490
Sal in wfabta now, oh well no demo now. Disappointing, i had hoped for one more trade with Sal. Our Forge in Lisbon is destroyed, the rules are clear on this i guess.

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-1500-1510, nothing spectacular happens.

Decision time, it's the last turn of our GA. We can't switch to emancipation unfortunately. Actually i'm not sure emancipation would have been best now. I'd like to switch back to slavery now, whip in all the important infra (including 6 banks for wall street), then give up a turn to switch to emancipation. Huge Food surplusses are our strongest asset right now.

Trade for physics with Brennus is still open, i don't think it's a good idea, it doesn't have any trade value left and we're probably one point away from friendly with Izz atm. We're in a bit of a tricky situation, typically i'd like to trade medicine for physics with Liz. This will probably only be possible if Liz and we are both bottom half of the list. But medicine will probably take us past Sal. So we may need to gift Medicine to Sal to get to trade with Liz again, actually np as long as we've finished our business (trading medicine) with Izzy. Well this is a fun game.

I enjoyed playing these turns, i can play a few more or Snow can continue. Input is needed on the civic switch, stay in caste or back to slavery. Also on the trade with Brennus but i think we're agreed here since i didn't get a comment on my last post( leave Brennus alone).

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+11 and still not friendly with izzy?

anyway, I wouldn't mind if you'd play some more turns(abit busy atm. - if you won't continue probably I can take it thursday).

was sal pleased with us when he went wheoorn(otherwise, 99% it's us)?

I'd go slavery and finish infra(I'd also like or, but probably we can't afford since izzy is more important than 25% in buildings)

who declared on who, since when it's izzy at war with brennus?(abit outdated, since I didn't get to smell civ. for 2 weeks now :p so couldn't load the last 2 saves)
 
Well done, Dirk.

I would like to go for radio next after Med and tried to grab the three associated wonders, especially the CR. Also, I would suggest to have a few hundred cash in bank for the event and tech trade most of time.

Edit: Yes, back to slavery, the best civic all through the game if there's no penalty from Emancipation
 
Agree with building up some cash, i'd like to get medicine asap too so i suggests lowering the slider after medicine. Radio is off the ecology route just as medicine but sushi will help like no tomorrow here, we are quite early so we can use it to full advantage spamming to harmless Brennus for instance. CR would be extremely valuable in our situation. It'll be hard to get it though, we don't have physics yet, if Izz gets electricity she might go radio and then she can build CR half priced, in the meantime we have no production multipliers. After medicine we should trade for physics asap and probably research electricity ourselves but have to take a look when medicine is in.

Emancipation penalties are slowly building up and will be crippling somewhere in the future. I think we'll need to convert to it sometime, we can transform some of the farms to cottages then.

@Snow,
There is a table by Niklas somewhere when ais'll be pleased,friendly etc.This guy found out about a lot of other interesting stuff too. I'll go looking for it again.

I think Sal was cautious with us when going wheoohrn. If i understood SDK code/DanF's tables correctly though Sal'll go for someone with whom he was annoyed at the time. Mind you i have checked this extensively for land targets, i think the conclusions port to sea targets but not 100% sure, could be some differences.
 
Radio is off the ecology route just as medicine but sushi will help like no tomorrow here, we are quite early so we can use it to full advantage spamming to harmless Brennus for instance. CR would be extremely valuable in our situation. It'll be hard to get it though, we don't have physics yet, if Izz gets electricity she might go radio and then she can build CR half priced, in the meantime we have no production multipliers. After medicine we should trade for physics asap and probably research electricity ourselves but have to take a look when medicine is in.

Demo is better than word, check my post of this
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=7985267#post7985267

Getting wonders without the factory and plant and IW is not that difficult as you thought. The most important thing is that you have to reach the tech first. Moreover, Radio is the tech having great trading value and is difficult to trade from even your friend.
 
I'd love to have CR, maybe i was thinking deity too much, there it's often difficult to get to radio first also because i often go AL first. Here we may arrive at radio with some room to spare as some ais will go electricity but they'll probably tech to AL/combustion etc first, Huyna would have gone radio but he's not here. Still we don't have nearly as much production as you have in your post. I'm too lazy to look it up now but CR could cost us ~20 turns in our best production city, maybe we should convert some farms to shops and back. It's worth the try anyway since radio'll have good trade value for sure. It'll also setup bombers for us with flight, could be useful.
 
Played another 5 turns,

Lower the slider a bit for some more cash without lowering the turns on medicine. We may need to run 0% after medicine's in to see what izz/Liz are doing.

Back to slavery,general whipping especially hard in rostov, from ~12 to 4 people.
FP's build, i settle 2 new cities now, this always hits on maintenance but will give us a profit soon, we have all we need (FP, biofarms, sushi soon to come) to make them profitable soon. To work all the tiles we have one more city to settle.

I really hope we don't miss out on the GM in capital, there's some GP pollution from other sources there and some unfortunate prophet overflow from the previous gp, i should have MM'd that.

1525 Izz friendly, she won't give me steel for bio but corp/div right is ok with her, see next turn what she'll give then.

1530
Izzy still gives us corp/div right so she hasn't started on Bio yet.

Ivory comes up in trade with Kublai. This is great news, +2 happy in every city, those markets are really making overtime now. Had to pay stone +3 gold for it.

Somewhere along the line i raised the slider again to get medicine 1 turn earlier.

1535
Medicine in, Sal and Liz are apparently doing well, we're still 1 above last place.

The following trade's are on offer:

-Medicine to physics +170 gold with Liz, there are others (steel for instance) but this is clearly best

-Bio for corp/div right is still ok with Izz, so she hasn't started on this yet. I think 1 turn into steel makes the trade available.

Time to hand it over to Snow, some thoughts:

-I think 1 turn into communism is best now, then make the trade with Izz. Communism can be traded with Liz, i think we can pickup steel/physics in return for medicine/communism. We won't go SP but now while we're still in slavery is the moment to get espionage infra up.If we don't go for espionage then we better forget about communism.

-Then accumulate cash until we see what direction the others are going, if theyr'e going railroad/AL we can shoot to electricity/radio then.

-Should we trade medicine away yet, i'd feel better if we'd have the GM. If not i'd rather have a second try. With national park and a switch back to caste (worth it for sushi) we can run some 10 merchants there. The physics trade with Liz won't run away i think.

-Izz is ready to sign a defensive pact, this is obviously risky but it would cement our relation in a such a way that we could start trading with Brennus. Izz will get into trouble though so i'm against taking the pact also because Brennus seems to be out of the game after the physics trade.

-Kublai is at +9 now without any fair trade modifiers, he likes us for our good looks apparently, if we ever get something to get this to +4 he'll be friendly too. We can get div right in trade and gift it to Kub, that won't get him to +4 i think but the Kublai situation is something to keep in mind. It'll be an unstable relation though and he'll profit as much from us as we from him.

-A Palace is being build in Lisbon, if we're going after wonders check if Lisbon is going to give more production, otherwise take it off queue for a while. But with Levee Lisbon'll be our best site i think, also since we can convert some tiles to shops temporarily.

-Izz is building Statue, unless she wins that race she'll have a lot of gold in the future, that maybe the moment to shove medicine down her throat.
 

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- I'd totally skip espionage; kubbie might pull one a ship on us, but kubbie and not starting kicking around... that'd be wierd. Kubbie likes everyone but izzy - so dp with izzy is meh. Eventually dp with izzy right when sal will come knocking.
Kubbie will be an issue later when he'll start declaring and we'll probably have to pay in order to prevent him from vassalizing around(though he might be too late).

Regarding sal - from what I know of the mechanics, simply the target with the highest score is always picked. Annoyed gives x4 score, but that's not a guarantee. On the other hand, we're LH and that mechanic was never too clear to me; we should be behind brennus and izzy in declaration order(we don't have a load of wonders either to increase our decl. score), but knowing those two and sal, I wonder if he has army to declare on any of them. Anyway, if we still have that caravel, we'll check - I still think it's us, but without loading.

- if I'd be offline, I'd save and trade for medicine :p Here, I'd keep med. till we get the gm :p

- we didn't beeline the media wonders, so I doubt we'll get them. No forge, no OR, no factory/plant, no decent prod. city... And I'd take rock'n'roll over CR anytime to be frank. We need to trade for happy stuff, it wouldn't hurt if we'd trade for some sushi stuff too.
 
I agree that sending a caravel to Sal is a good idea. Annoyed vs cautious is a factor 2 at the end of all the other declaration calculations and i don't think Brennus is too strong so i guess he'll be target.

Espionage would allow us to see Izzy's research, it can also help out in tough late game situations. But to do it right we'd need intelligence/security buros + Jails. Hammers probably better spent in sushi abuse/banks.

I prefer CR to the other wonders here, i think there will come up quite a few situations in this game where a civic change would come in handy. Slavery/Caste/emancipation, rep/us. Maybe also some fooling around with the religious civics or even FS. If nothing else works You can just pay for the sushi stuff, it's not that expensive.

I think we definitely should hold off on the medicine trade until we sure we'll get sushi.
 
Sushi is not that important, how many food will it supply you with current empire. After Biology, in most case, you would be worry about too many population without enough happy resources to please them.
 
I believe +4 food now, will be more after some trade. Pretty good, +2 specialists in 15 cities gives us a very nice return. Under rep/lib/uni/observ bonus 2 scientists are good for 2* 1.75 * 6 ~20 beakers * 15 = 300 bpt. More in Lisbon and also more gpp in Moscow. We don't have to worry about happy cap if we convert the extra food directly to specs. In slavery another +4 food means we can whip some more especially if we get CR for fast civic switches.

We can also spam it to Liz and Brennus if they're not in SP or even all the other ais. We'll make a good profit after wallstreet. It takes time to set it all up of course.

Without sushi Medicine might have been dubious although it has good trade value as well of course.
 
You have not counted the extra maintenance involved. Most important, it takes times and the investment of 1 GM and 15 execs is not trivial.
 
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