Unique Flaws

[spaceman98]

My responses

Here are some of my ideas:
Arabia: The flaw of Intolerance: 2 for each Non state religion(No state religion will count so secularism won't remove it and it would be good if the UP didn't remove religions so that both the AI and Player prosecute often and )
As I have already said, Arabia was actually historically MORE tolerant than its neighbors (the Byzantines, the Crusaders, etc.) for most of its history. Also, with the Arab UP this is meaningless, as it will only appear in Shiraz and Jerusalem

China: The flaw of Too much population:: +25% in each city
This would actually make China have a LOWER population than the rest of the world. Not what we want


America: The flaw of the bill of rights: can't change the religion and government civic ( or just government)
The America AI usually converts to Protestantism on its first few turns of existence, and adopts a religious civic appropriately. Thus, this UF would tend to lock the US in as a Protestant theocracy forever (well, to be fair, the South is a Protestant Theocracy but...). Frankly, given that what the US ended up as could have been very different in a different historical circumstance (people wanted to crown George Washington king!) IMO this UF is misguided.

Iran: The flaw of influence(can't think of a better one): If Iran lost a Huge war, it's neighbors can demand none core cities near it's borders and Iran can't refuse.

Isn't the post-World War congress mechanic already this for everyone? Or do I misunderstand the mechanic?

HRE: The Flaw of decentralization: HRE can't pick any other organization civic until the spawn of Prussians
This one works well

Brazil: The Flaw of Amazon: Brazil can't cut trees till ecology and when it discovers it, every tree cut would result 2 turn anarchy in every city in the country.
I feel like this one is crippling, but I could be mistaken. To be fair, Brazil's hyperinflation after the building of Brasilia was basically this, so this is historically accurate...

Japan: The flaw of an island(or something like that): Cannot settle cities that aren't island and must conquer non island cities(Australia, Indonesia and Philippe doesn't count)

This would prevent Japan from settling Manchuria so IMO its a bad idea


Kongo: The Flaw of Backwardness: Can't research any techs and must buy them.
Kongo researched well enough before the Europeans (Belgians) took over. Also, since the DOC AI is unwilling to make tech trades unless they are VERY favorable towards it, this flaw is utterly crippling and would leave Kongo stuck with a pre-gunpowder army when the rest of the world is in Space. Even the modern Congo has gunpowder, and some modernized infrastructure. Most of it is imported, but as I have said, the DOC AI doesn't do foreign aid/tech trades in my experience.

 

[VGL]

Here is my response to some of your response:

America: The flaw of the bill of rights: can't change the religion and government civic ( or just government)
The America AI usually converts to Protestantism on its first few turns of existence, and adopts a religious civic appropriately. Thus, this UF would tend to lock the US in as a Protestant theocracy forever (well, to be fair, the South is a Protestant Theocracy but...). Frankly, given that what the US ended up as could have been very different in a different historical circumstance (people wanted to crown George Washington king!) IMO this UF is misguided.
I meant it's spawned civics so that means america can't switch out of a secular republic
Iran: The flaw of influence(can't think of a better one): If Iran lost a Huge war, it's neighbors can demand none core cities near it's borders and Iran can't refuse.

Isn't the post-World War congress mechanic already this for everyone? Or do I misunderstand the mechanic?
I did not know that
Japan: The flaw of an island(or something like that): Cannot settle cities that aren't island and must conquer non island cities(Australia, Indonesia and Philippe doesn't count)

This would prevent Japan from settling Manchuria so IMO its a bad ideaJapan doesn't have interest in Manchuria so why would he settle their?

 

[spaceman98]

Manchuria is

1: A Japanese Historical Area (so is Western Washington for Alt-history possibility purposes)

2: Required for the "All of Asia under One Roof" UHV

3: A region that Japan historically controlled http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchukuo

 

[VGL]

Well, Japan must conquer it instead of settling it

 

[spaceman98]

Well, Japan must conquer it instead of settling it

> Be Japan

> China invades Korea, then Collapses, no one settles Manchuria. (I had this happen in one game).

> Cry, because you have to control Manchuria, and there is nothing there to control, and its not even your fault, because China's invasion and collapse both happened before you spawned...

A barbarian city does spawn in Manchuria, but it getting razed (e.g. by Mongols) is very possible, and also largely outside of the Japanese player's control. If we were to implement this UF, we would have to have a conditional spawn of an independent city in Manchuria in the early 1900s, such that, if Manchuria is empty, an independent city spawns there for the Japanese to conquer.

 

[VGL]

well, what if china settles it and when mongols razed it, they would settle it again?

 

[Leoreth]

Did you just write DoC greentext?

 

[need my speed]

well, what if china settles it and when mongols razed it, they would settle it again?

What if we don't force the game into a very strict pathway to accommodate ideas that aren't fun at all in my opinion and actually sound quite horrible from a gameplay perspective?

 

[BenZL43]

TBH, these aren't what I thought in mind when I wrote this 3 years ago. For Japan, what I had in mind was probably sort of honor or moral thing. AFAIK Japanese people are really good in social control and each of them have a very high moral standard. I can't really explain how in English - maybe Royals Tenembaum can explain it better than me. In short, people rather commit suicide than caught losing the war. There's a lot of people commiting harakiri when Emperor Hirohito, iirc, acknowledge that Japan has lost the WWII.

Some argue that it happens due to to tradition during the feudalism era but even after the feudalism clans are abolished, these shame society persists. Man, there's Japanese word for this, I can't remember - my sensei taught about this once.
I heard that in conducting business nowadays some of these philosophy exists - which explain why Japanese product are very high in quality and Japanese people easily feel embarrassed if they failed to provide the best for the customer/client.

UF: Unhapiness/unstability if clearly losing in war / doing something immoral (pay a neutral civilization to attack civ Japan hate most, severing agreements one-sided, etc

 

[brett0007]

I think its an interesting concept. If pulled off right and could go a long way to adding more flavour to the game.

few random ideas(probably imba as hell, also where negative non of these are meant to cause offence)

Arabs or Turks: The flaw of decadence: +1 for every 1000 in a city

Byzantines: The flaw of stagnation: double unit upgrade cost

French: The flaw of cheese eating surrender monkeys: -10000 unit strengthof viva la revolution! +50% longer anarchy when switching from authoritarian to liberal civics.

Persians: The flaw of bad defence????: for every city lost within 5 turns of each other the stability hit doubles

Greeks: The flaw of independence:lower threshold for cities declaring independence

Japan:the flaw of honour: temporary upon losing a war

Poland: The flaw of cannot into space: space race victory disabled

English: the flaw of the island: bigger relations hit when disagreeing with mainland European Civs

Prussians: Flaw of Bad postwar pr: Longer negative relations for "You declared war on us/our friend"

 

[VGL]

Persians: The flaw of bad defence????: for every city lost within 5 turns of each other the stability hit doubles

Persia is already weak.
And I figured out Iran: The flaw of Esteghlal, Azadi, Jomhirie eslami (translation: Independent, Freedom, The Islamic Republic): Each liberal civic will increase the chance of Barbarians spawning and if they take 2/3 of the city, you will take control of the barbarians city and will be locked in the following civics: Republic, Egalitarianism, Public welfare, Environmentalism, Fanaticism and Militia.

 

[Visard]

Egypt: The flaw of Nile: Unhappiness to every city not connected to Nile.
Babylon: The flaw of Erosion: Towns and villages on floodplains give additional unhealthiness.
China: The flaw of Isolation: -20% to foreign trade routes.
India: The flaw of Unequality: Unhappiness from whipping and drafting lasts longer.
Greece: The flaw of Arrogance: -1 to relations with other civs.
Phoenicia: The flaw of Moloch: -2 to relations with civs without slavery.
Persians: The flaw of Liberator: Cannot use slavery.
Romans: The flaw of Adaptation: +20% for tech costs that nobody haven't learned.

 

[Linkman226]

Can we just agree this is a dumb idea, Leoreth has shown no inclination he will ever implement such a thing, and even if he were to this is time-intensive and therefore not high on his priority list, and just move on with our lives? It ain't gonna happen. Sorry for pointing out the emperor has no clothes.

 

[Leoreth]

Aw Snape, let them have their flapdoodle.