Upgrade for scouts
- Thread starter CYZ
- Start date
True enough. Well I’ll take a crack at it. All of these units are considered Recon units and therefore may take Scouting Promotions.
Special Forces Units - I was considering giving the Special Forces unit a No Defensive Bonus to illustrate their use as an offensive arm of the military.
Spoiler :
Guerilla / Partisan Units - I would like to have incorporated booby traps and the like, but I can't think of a nice in-game representation.
Spoiler :
What do you guys think?
One thing that was ambiguous in your updated post (for me, that is) was whether the "Great Explorer" is a civilian unit like all the other Great People, or is actually a military unit that isn't automatically going to lose in combat.
Some might consider such distinction a trivial one...but not me. I can't stand how my civilian units can't move through units belonging to someone else, even if I'm friendly/allied with the person owning those other units. IN FACT, maybe I should make THAT a suggestion...
Excellent ideas! I think 1 : Commando / Recon and Pillaging would be my choice and ideal what I was hoping for as the late game recon unit. Just one small adjustment, I think it would be better to start with "May move after attacking" than "Begins with Siege I".
I think GEX should be line of other GPs and treated like civilian unit (no combat strength).
Added the upgrade path infos to my proposal. I know it is a long step from Scout to Commando, but between that gap is the Balloon unit and GEX, and in my opinion they fill the need for another Explorer unit.
Excellent ideas! I think 1 : Commando / Recon and Pillaging would be my choice and ideal what I was hoping for as the late game recon unit. Just one small adjustment, I think it would be better to start with "May move after attacking" than "Begins with Siege I".
Move after attacking would fit much better than Siege I. The only reason I added Siege I was to give the Special forces a more offensive oomph. However, hit and run makes sense with the unit's lower combat value of 40.
So, for a commando unit:
Special Forces – Requires Mass Media to build. Cost 500. Combat 40. 4 movement total. May move after attacking. Ignores ZOC. Pillaging doesn’t use movement points. Ignores terrain movement costs.
The GEX is a civilian (does this mean no retreat chance?)
Upgrade paths
Scout->explorer->commando
Balloon->helicopter gunship
And commando should come around WWII?
Special Forces – Requires Mass Media to build. Cost 500. Combat 40. 4 movement total. May move after attacking. Ignores ZOC. Pillaging doesn’t use movement points. Ignores terrain movement costs.
The GEX is a civilian (does this mean no retreat chance?)
Upgrade paths
Scout->explorer->commando
Balloon->helicopter gunship
And commando should come around WWII?
That would be pretty much perfect.
Yes, I think GEX 95% retreat change needs to be removed from the idea. It seems very powerful and useful GP (would be probably my most used, as Exploration is my favorite emphasization) even without it.
Not sure how the Techs / Eras play in G&K (with the new Enlightment era added), but around WWII seems appropriate.
Yup, the GEX will either need to keep another unit closeby for protection or it should just focus on avoiding barbarians, which should be easy enough.
How about promotions? I only know the first four, never got further than that on my scouts. What other promotions are there? Do we need more?
Cyon
Cosmonaut
Why not Hot air ballon as a new unit chain:
Baloon > Zeppeliner > UAV
Or maybe spy satelite as the last, and a recognation plane inbetween?
Baloon > Zeppeliner > UAV
Or maybe spy satelite as the last, and a recognation plane inbetween?
SuperWaffle247
Secretary General
I would say Balloon - Zeppelin - UAV. And if you want something between UAV and Zeppelin you can do a scout helicopter. Or a spy plane. I'm more partial to the chopper because it's silly to restrict a random unit in the tree to airbases.
Baloon -> Zepplin -> Strategic Reconaissance Aircraft (SR-71 Blackbird) -> UAV sounds better to me.
SuperWaffle247
Secretary General
Would the Blackbird behave like a normal unit or like fighters and bombers?
Ah, sorry. The blackbird would behave like a fighter unit, not an exploring unit. A floating explorer unit after Zepplin but before UAV....It would have to be a helicopter unit with limited combat capabilities. Observation Helicopters come to mind.
Examples:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hughes_OH-6_Cayuse
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_MD_500_Defender
However, the gap between an observation helicopter and a UAV might not be big enough to consider both for addition.
Isn't this going a bit too deep?
I mean, the balloon has it uses for being the first flying unit and thereby the first to be able to do recon runs. However, ones planes come into play the balloon obseletes, since planes have the ability to do recon runs as well. IMO planes are good enough for recon runs, making a seperate unit just for that purpose is taking it a bit too far.
I mean, the balloon has it uses for being the first flying unit and thereby the first to be able to do recon runs. However, ones planes come into play the balloon obseletes, since planes have the ability to do recon runs as well. IMO planes are good enough for recon runs, making a seperate unit just for that purpose is taking it a bit too far.
Agreed.
There's only four Recon promotions:
http://www.dndjunkie.com/civilopedia/PROMOTION_SCOUTING_1.aspx
http://www.dndjunkie.com/civilopedia/PROMOTION_SCOUTING_2.aspx
http://www.dndjunkie.com/civilopedia/PROMOTION_SCOUTING_3.aspx
http://www.dndjunkie.com/civilopedia/PROMOTION_SENTRY.aspx
I do agree there ought to be more of them.
So we have survivalism.
1: +1 hp healed outside of friendly territory
2: +50% defence
3: +50% defence and heal while moving
That makes enough sense to me, then scouting.
1: +1 sight
2: +1 move
3: +1 sight
Good enough, though promotion 3 seems kindof underwhelming.
How about making these available.
With survivalism 2, you may take Support: +1 sight for adjacent units
With survivalism 3, you may take Recovery: your unit heals completely when entering one of your cities
With scouting 2, you may take Seafaring: embarking does not end your turn (like an opposite Denmark UA)
With scouting 3, gain double gains from finding CS/ruins/barb camps (just like the ability for the Great Explorer)
With either scouting 3 or survivalism 3 you may also take the Paradrop upgrade, allowing your unit to paradrop. Only available with flight researched. This is obviously intended to give the commando a boost when upgraded.
What do you think?
1: +1 hp healed outside of friendly territory
2: +50% defence
3: +50% defence and heal while moving
That makes enough sense to me, then scouting.
1: +1 sight
2: +1 move
3: +1 sight
Good enough, though promotion 3 seems kindof underwhelming.
How about making these available.
With survivalism 2, you may take Support: +1 sight for adjacent units
With survivalism 3, you may take Recovery: your unit heals completely when entering one of your cities
With scouting 2, you may take Seafaring: embarking does not end your turn (like an opposite Denmark UA)
With scouting 3, gain double gains from finding CS/ruins/barb camps (just like the ability for the Great Explorer)
With either scouting 3 or survivalism 3 you may also take the Paradrop upgrade, allowing your unit to paradrop. Only available with flight researched. This is obviously intended to give the commando a boost when upgraded.
What do you think?
Here's something else I've been thinking to actually make these promotions usefull.
Scouts may gain up to 3 promotions from barbarians instead of 2, explorers may get up to 4 and commandos may get up to 5.
That way you will actually be able to promote those units. I imagine especially the commando being a perfect barb hunter. That won't be as usefull unless there's still unclaimed territory nearby but it also has a decent millitary use.
Scouts may gain up to 3 promotions from barbarians instead of 2, explorers may get up to 4 and commandos may get up to 5.
That way you will actually be able to promote those units. I imagine especially the commando being a perfect barb hunter. That won't be as usefull unless there's still unclaimed territory nearby but it also has a decent millitary use.
I think what a modern recon unit really needs to gain to work well is not increased movement and sight but rather some kind of stealth.
It seems to me by the time explorers come on line the entire world is not only explored, but barring a special map type is pretty much all settled, which makes them not really explorers at all.
I'd even say that recon units in the early game are a fundamentally different unit type than recon units in the late game, so there's no particular reason for one to progress into the other. Early game recon units are explorers, late game recon units are more like spies.
It seems to me by the time explorers come on line the entire world is not only explored, but barring a special map type is pretty much all settled, which makes them not really explorers at all.
I'd even say that recon units in the early game are a fundamentally different unit type than recon units in the late game, so there's no particular reason for one to progress into the other. Early game recon units are explorers, late game recon units are more like spies.
Peng Qi
Emperor
I created a thread with some suggestions long ago: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=403513
Ailedhoo
wonderer
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2012
- Messages
- 7,809
I would like to see the return of the explorer as a means of ensuring exploring units for searching the world. Perhapes with a special sea sight bonus to aloow them able to locate isles better.
The balloon idea is awesome as a means to avoid the explorer units being a waste of maintenance after the industrial age, for it was the problem explorers faced in Civ 4 that they ended up a waste of gold post exploring... barring as extra defence.
The balloon idea is awesome as a means to avoid the explorer units being a waste of maintenance after the industrial age, for it was the problem explorers faced in Civ 4 that they ended up a waste of gold post exploring... barring as extra defence.
