US forced to drop charges against two Gitmo detainees-may have to do same with all

Samson

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To be honest I do not know enough about the details to be sure this is really significant, but it seems that way to me. Someone (MobBoss?) can tell us if it is as important as this articale makes out;

from New York Times

GUANTÁNAMO BAY, Cuba, June 4 — A military judge here dismissed the war crimes charges against a Canadian detainee today, saying there was a flaw in the procedure the military has used to file such charges against Guantánamo detainees.

The ruling in the case of the Canadian, Omar Khadr, is likely to stall the military’s war crimes prosecutions here. Critics of the prosecutions immediately called for Congress to reexamine the system it set up last year for military commissions to try detainees.

The military judge, Col. Peter E. Brownback III of the Army, said that Congress authorized the tribunals to try only those detainees who had been determined to be unlawful enemy combatants. But the military authorities here, he said, have determined only that Mr. Khadr was an enemy combatant, without making the added determination that his participation was “unlawful.”

Military lawyers here said the same flaw would affect every other potential war crimes case here. The ruling, the latest in a history of legal setbacks for the government’s effort to bring war-crimes charges against detainees, appeared to raise far-reaching questions, because it involved central principles of detention procedures.

Under directives from President Bush and senior Defense Department officials, military officials here have held detainees after finding simply that they were “enemy combatants.”

Those procedures have long drawn criticism, with some opponents of administration policies saying that they appeared to ignore principles of the international law of war, which permits the violence of battle without classifying it a war crime.
...
“A person has a right to be tried only by a court which he knows has jurisdiction over him,” the judge said from the bench in the military courtroom at the United States naval base here.

The chief military defense lawyer here, Col. Dwight Sullivan of the Marines, said he viewed the decision as having broad impact, because it underscored what he and other critics have described as a commission process that lacks international legitimacy and legal authority.

And some more from my new favourate news outlet (hope it works, I have not tried this before)
 
Not that big of a deal, inho. They will probably have a review board reclassify them in accordance to the Judges directives....i.e. have their status changed from 'enemy combatants' to 'unlawful enemy combatants'.

Which in turn actually gives them more leeway in dealing with the prisoners. 'unlawful enemy combatants' get far fewer perks than just 'enemy combatants'.
 
Oh, thank god that there are still some people commited to moral integrity and itnernational law in the US.
 
Not that big of a deal, inho. They will probably have a review board reclassify them in accordance to the Judges directives....i.e. have their status changed from 'enemy combatants' to 'unlawful enemy combatants'.

Do you have any idea what the definitions are, ie. what law you break in a combat arena? What is the level of proof required?
 
Oh, thank god that there are still some people commited to moral integrity and itnernational law in the US.
Remember David Hicks, the Australian Taliban? Well, three years ago, his attorney petitioned against having this judge (Col. Brownback III) preside over his case due to his close personal relation with John D. Altenburg, the Pentagon official that appointed Brownback to be the judge for this trial.

I just thought that maybe you should know...
 
Do you have any idea what the definitions are, ie. what law you break in a combat arena? What is the level of proof required?

It doesnt have to do with that...it has more to do with what defines a ligitimate enemy combatant and an unlawful enemy combantant. Basically, unlawful enemy combatant are people that shoot at you that wear no uniform or nation/state identifying marks. There is more to it, but essentially, enemy combatants are usually POWs and have much more rights than spys/saboteurs and terrorists that are generally unlawful enemy combatants.
 
It doesnt have to do with that...it has more to do with what defines a ligitimate enemy combatant and an unlawful enemy combantant. Basically, unlawful enemy combatant are people that shoot at you that wear no uniform or nation/state identifying marks. There is more to it, but essentially, enemy combatants are usually POWs and have much more rights than spys/saboteurs and terrorists that are generally unlawful enemy combatants.

Presumably it is defined by the geneva convention then? Got a link by any chance (to save me a bit of googling).
 
Presumably it is defined by the geneva convention then? Got a link by any chance (to save me a bit of googling).

Its been awhile since I looked it up myself. It can be burdensome to poke around in that too so good luck. Basically, its supposed to signify the difference between prisoners of legitimate armed forces from a state from all the spies and sabotuers which are considered illegal under the law of war.
 
Its been awhile since I looked it up myself. It can be burdensome to poke around in that too so good luck. Basically, its supposed to signify the difference between prisoners of legitimate armed forces from a state from all the spies and sabotuers which are considered illegal under the law of war.
I shall have a look. One would have to wonder how many members of recent wars would be covered, but I guess it is a bit of pretty old legislation.
 
wiki

The Geneva Conventions define people captured in combat as either civilians or enemy combatants (POWS). The USA decided to introduce a new category so it could treat people it didn't like any way it chose, deny them their rights etc.

The US claims historical precedent for use of the term 'illegal combatant', however there is precedent in international law stating specifically that this is not an option:
Human Rights Watch have pointed out that in a judgement, the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia interpreted the International Committee of the Red Cross, Commentary: IV Geneva Convention Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War (Geneva: 1958) to mean that:

there is no gap between the Third and Fourth Geneva Conventions. If an individual is not entitled to the protection of the Third Convention as a prisoner of war ... he or she necessarily falls within the ambit of [the Fourth Convention], provided that its article 4 requirements [defining a protected person] are satisfied.[11]
The implication is that the status of unlawful combatant does not exist,
So, once again we have the US lawyers (at least, those that work for the administration) saying 'this is legal' and everyone else pointing out that it isn't.

Edit: The US govt even decided that people fighting for the Taliban (who were, let's remember, the government in Afghanistan) were illegal. Let's just make up the rules as we go along huh?
 
Interesting comments. I actually posted this story a little while ago here...
 
A camp that's illegal by it's own nature and doesn't answer to any laws, finds illegal the procedure used to file charges against the animal they keep(it surely isn't a man, since it has no rights at all, not to say that even animals have some rights). They're all illegals, everyone there. :eek:

Normally, we shouldn't even discuss about the whole issue, since we're discussing about illegals here. Someone should arrest all of them for their illegal activities or just nuke them; who would care about the fate of illegals, anyway? :rolleyes:
 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6720315.stm
BBC said:
Guantanamo pair's charges dropped

A US military judge has thrown out charges against two Guantanamo Bay detainees, casting fresh doubt on efforts to try foreign terror suspects.

Both cases collapsed because military authorities had failed to designate the men as "unlawful" enemy combatants.

In one case a Canadian man, Omar Khadr, was accused of killing a US soldier in Afghanistan with a grenade.

Charges were also dropped against Salim Ahmed Hamdan, a Yemeni accused of being Osama Bin Laden's driver and bodyguard.

The BBC's James Westhead in Washington says the rulings deal a stunning blow to the Bush administration's attempt to bring its detainees at Guantanamo Bay to trial.

Under a new system of military justice approved by Congress last year, detainees facing trial must be designated "unlawful enemy combatants".

When they were assessed years earlier they were described only as "enemy combatants". The word "unlawful" did not appear, giving the new tribunals no jurisdiction.

It seems the same may apply to all the other 380 detainees, leaving the tribunal system in legal limbo while Bush administration lawyers race to clarify the situation.

The US government has basically three options, our correspondent says:

* throw the whole system out and start again, which would be very embarrassing for the Bush administration
* redesignate all the detainees as "unlawful enemy combatants", which would require a separate administrative hearing
* appeal against the ruling - but this would need to be handled by an appeals court, the military commissions review, which has not yet been established

Tribunal issue

Defendant Omar Khadr, 20, appeared in court on Monday wearing a prison uniform, light sandals and a straggly beard.

He was just 15 years old when he was captured in Afghanistan, and was accused of killing a US soldier during a battle at a suspected al-Qaeda base in 2002.

He appeared in court charged with murder, attempted murder, conspiracy and providing support for terrorism.

The judge left open the possibility that Mr Khadr could be re-charged if he appeared before an official review panel and was formally classified as an "unlawful" enemy combatant.

He said prosecutors could lodge an appeal within 72 hours, although it was not immediately clear who they could appeal to. Prosecutors have indicated they intend to appeal.

All charges were dropped in the case of Salim Ahmed Hamdan, accused of serving both as chauffeur and bodyguard to al-Qaeda leader Osama Bin Laden.


Lawyers for Mr Hamdan said: "It was a victory for the rule of law and the law of war."

Legal limbo

The tribunal's chief defence counsel, Marine Colonel Dwight Sullivan, said the rulings were not a technicality, but another demonstration that the system did not work
.

Senator Chris Dodd, a Democratic presidential candidate, said the system was corroding America's foundation of freedom.

Senator Arlen Specter, the senior Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee, told the New York Times that Monday's ruling could prompt Congress to re-evaluate the legal rights of detainees.

"The sense I have is that there's an unease, an uncomfortable sense about the whole Guantanamo milieu. There's just a sense of too many shortcuts in the whole process," he said.

The Guantanamo Bay facility was set up by the US in January 2002 to detain foreign prisoners suspected of links with al-Qaeda or the Taliban.

About 770 inmates - many from the conflict in Afghanistan - have been at the camp on Cuba, which is not subject to normal US court rules.

Only one person - Australian David Hicks - has been convicted at Guantanamo. He was jailed for nine months in March 2007, and is now serving the sentence in Adelaide.

Fan-bloody-tastic.
If the people in charge don't have enough moral integrity to call the whole thing a sham, then leaving it to the legal system is jsut as good.
 
Nevermind my post.
 
We suspended Habeas Corpus to convict one guy with an English name to only 9 months?

Close it down.
 
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