Use of Chemical Weapons in Syria

[Lord Baal]

I hope you're joking. I don't think any reasonable person on this forum believes the US is not more financially sound than Greece. Or most of the Eurozone for that matter.

It's certainly not more financially-sound than France or Germany, but more so than Greece, Italy or Spain. Basically everyone but North Korea and Zimbabwe are more financially-sound than Greece right now.

 

[DemonicAppleGuY]

It's certainly not more financially-sound than France or Germany, but more so than Greece, Italy or Spain. Basically everyone but North Korea and Zimbabwe are more financially-sound than Greece right now.

I'll gladly give you Germany. France is really starting to hit some hard economic times these days though.

With unemployment climbing, deficits that just won't quit, and an economy that just got out of recession last quarter, the French are having some troubles.

In the US however, unemployment is falling, the deficit is decreasing at a fair pace, and the economy last quarter grew 2.5% according to the revised numbers.


Let it be known though, I have no doubt the French will climb out of this at some point. Recent numbers have shown improvement for Europe, I'm not sure if they will hold though.

The problems we see in Spain, Greece, and Italy today will likely stay unresolved for many more years. That high of unemployment doesn't just go away p:

 

[Lord Baal]

Didn't France enter the GFC later than most states, and therefore wasn't hit as hard by the recession to begin with?

 

[DemonicAppleGuY]

Didn't France enter the GFC later than most states, and therefore wasn't hit as hard by the recession to begin with?

The big drop did hit the French and ended earlier for them, but they are seeing extremely anemic and often negative growth that still has yet to recover what they lost during the GFC.

 

[ReindeerThistle]

Zimbabwe doing okay...inspite of political turmoil.

http://www.indexmundi.com/zimbabwe/economy_profile.html

Zimbabwe's economy is growing despite continuing political uncertainty. Following a decade of contraction from 1998 to 2008, Zimbabwe's economy recorded real growth of more than 9% per year in 2010-11, before slowing to 5% in 2012, due in part to a poor harvest and low diamond revenues. However, the government of Zimbabwe still faces a number of difficult economic problems, including infrastructure and regulatory deficiencies, ongoing indigenization pressure, policy uncertainty, a large external debt burden, and insufficient formal employment.

Did the US economy grow 5% in 2012?

Socialism looking mighty good.

Sent via mobile.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

5% of a really small number is << 2% of a really big number

Those maths are lookin mighty fine

 

[Borachio]

Zimbabwe doing okay...inspite of political turmoil.

http://www.indexmundi.com/zimbabwe/economy_profile.html



Did the US economy grow 5% in 2012?

Socialism looking mighty good.

Sent via mobile.

Wut? Zimbabwe is considered socialist?

 

[ReindeerThistle]

No, I'm saying socialism looking pretty good.

But I think Mugabe is a socialist

Sent via mobile.

 

[kramerfan86]

So Obama is going to ask for congressional approval to act, part of me is thinking he is really hoping congress does like british parliament and nixes it.

 

[Borachio]

Just how hawkish is Congress at the moment?

And if the doves win, then Obama's off the hook as far as "his" red line is concerned.

Though the US itself would lose credibility, wouldn't it?

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Just how hawkish is Congress at the moment?

And if the doves win, then Obama's off the hook as far as "his" red line is concerned.

Though the US itself would lose credibility, wouldn't it?

Pretty hawkish - the key is though that they will push for action up until Obama goes along with it, then they turn to doves. It is really hard to explain how disfunctional our government is at the moment. No one has actual stances, it is all partisan bs.

And if the hawks-turned-doves 'win' and we don't go in, then Obama is soft on terror, they will say.

But it's largely out of their hands; it's Obama's decision to make.

 

[DemonicAppleGuY]

Zimbabwe doing okay...inspite of political turmoil.

http://www.indexmundi.com/zimbabwe/economy_profile.html



Did the US economy grow 5% in 2012?

Socialism looking mighty good.

Sent via mobile.

The average American is about 60 times more wealthy than the average person from Zimbabwe.

Socialism is looking terrible. (If we take Zimbabwe to be socialist, for some reason >.>)

 

[Borachio]

No, I'm saying socialism looking pretty good.

But I think Mugabe is a socialist

Really?

Seems to me like you must be using a different definition of socialist from the one I know, then.

 

[Gucumatz]

The difference though is that the US became relatively stable within a decade or two, while I am about 96% certain Libya will still be a hellhole 30 years from now.

Again things take time. Let me make the comparison to something closer to home for me, the Guatemalan Civil War. Once the issue was finally resolved things began to truly improve after a decade. Comparing the year 2000,2005, and 2010 to one another you will see how democracy, systems of law, economy, etc. all have been growing back once the final peace happened. Having a 30 year civil war is not a better situation than having 10 years of hell after a peace. If there is no intervention, how long will this civil war go? It has all the makings of a near endless civil war in Syria.

Libya may be a hellhole now, but mark my words - 10 years from now it will surpass the living standards and general quality of life than it ever reached under Gadhafi

Likewise, once there is peace in Syria the same will happen given time. I would say 96% confidence, that what you see as a hellhole now is arbitrarily distorted by short-term vision

 

[Borachio]

So how long has Somalia been a failed state now?

And the Congo, and Afghanistan. Though I'd guess you'd say conflicts are on-going in all three.

I'm not following your logic at all.

Are you saying once a civil war has been won, peace and democracy inevitably follow within 10 years?

It kind of relies on determining when a "civil war has been won" doesn't it?

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I think it's safe to say that the majority of cicil wars don't drag on like that Mr. B.

Could be wrong.

 

[Gucumatz]

@ Borachio

I am sorry, but yes how are those apt comparisons? Constant warfare in the Congo, Somalia, etc.

It takes peace and then gradual transitioning. There can be no peace without intervention in Syria, neither side will lose - Assad or the rebels. In Congo you have constant rebels rising up. In Syria, don't get me started on the internal conflicts. If you just want to look at the international conflicts - look at how many times Ethiopia had to invade Somalia in the last few years.

 

[Borachio]

Well. OK.

But why have we got two threads going on this same subject?

I'm confused as hell.

 

[Gucumatz]

Now that I am not sure about , why are there 2 threads about the same thing?

 

[dutchfire]

But it's largely out of their hands; it's Obama's decision to make.

The Congress shall have power to .... declare war.