v21 bugs and crashes

[Epona222]

Sorry if this has already been mentioned as I haven't read the whole thread.

Silversmith/Goldsmith/Coppersmith/Ironsmith type buildings that give the Bullion resource require one of the metal map resources (with mine and route) in the city vicinity, a silver/gold/copper/iron mine building in the city, and a forge.

These buildings should require either a forge OR a foundry, as foundry replaces forge (*edit to add, that if foundry can later be replaced by another building, that should also be an 'OR' requirement, IMO it should be any one of the buildings in that upgrade chain that is required, rather than just the first one, at least up to the point where jewellers and anything else requiring Bullion resource becomes obsolete!) - in my current game I have accidentally ended up not being able to get the Bullion resource (and cannot build jewellers as a result), by upgrading my forges to foundries without having first built the relevant metalsmith building, which is now unavailable to build unless I delete a foundry somewhere (assuming I can remember how to do that!) and rebuild a forge.

 

[DRJ]

Sorry if this has already been mentioned as I haven't read the whole thread.

Silversmith/Goldsmith/Coppersmith/Ironsmith type buildings that give the Bullion resource require one of the metal map resources (with mine and route) in the city vicinity, a silver/gold/copper/iron mine building in the city, and a forge.

It should require either a forge OR a foundry, as foundry replaces forge - in my current game I have accidentally ended up not being able to get the Bullion resource (and cannot build jewellers) as a result, by upgrading my forges to foundries without having first built the relevant metalsmith building, which is now unavailable to build unless I delete a foundry somewhere (assuming I can remember how to do that!) and rebuild a forge.

Foundry issue was fixed in recent SVN, if I remember right, plus destroying buildings = Crtl + A

 

[Epona222]

Foundry issue was fixed in recent SVN, if I remember right, plus destroying buildings = Crtl + A

Ah thanks, I am just using the plain v21, still not got round to getting the SVN thingy up and running. And cheers for the reminder on how to destroy buildings, I tried a few key combinations but couldn't recall exactly how to do it - I need one of those keyboard overlays, if anyone remembers those from back in the day when most games tended to be complex, had a doorstop thick manual, and an overlay for your keyboard, because games weren't all streamlined Thank goodness for CIV 4 and C2C!

 

[imtheman]

Right, so now my Golden Age has ended, but instead of going back to normal I lost another 100 gold per turn. The buildings that generate income also seem to work the way they should. I just have no idea how I went from 200 gold / turn to -200 gold/turn just by triggering the Golden Age (with 2 great persons, artist and prophet), no civic changes

And Seafaring Achievement during the Golden Age affecting income negatively still baffles me... Anyways, back to game :>


Edit: I figured it might be inflation acting weird. Is there a way to turn off inflation in-game?

inflation is only costing you 27 in that save game?

 

[AIAndy]

Foundry issue was fixed in recent SVN, if I remember right, plus destroying buildings = Crtl + A

Maybe I should add a button to the city screen.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Maybe I should add a button to the city screen.

That would be extremely helpful! For a long time I forgot what it was even though i wrote it down.

 

[strategyonly]

Maybe I should add a button to the city screen.

Isn't that like Ctrl A = Abandon Buildings, but you have to be in the city screen.
and Ctrl-Shift X = Autoplay

 

[WimpyTheWarrior]

Locust swarms are receiving defensive terrain benefits. Is this a bug or intentional? I suppose bugs would be harder to kill in covering terrain...

Love this unit, BTW. Very clever, especially the way it WILL eat your crops! The first time a swarm entered my territory I said "WHA???? - COOL!!!!"

 

[DRJ]

Just found a way to reproduce the movement bug (canoe path over land) This time it's reverse as an Eagle wants to fly over water (couldn't we have a seagull with this ability maybe [scouting sea]? Or a pigeon - just think of Noah?)

Try to move the Eagle from Toulouse to Valencia to reproduce it.

In the other savegame, a roman stack is stuck, after I razed the capital (Rome) which I think they were supposed to reinforce, they refused to move anywhere. I guess they got no new orders.

 

[Zain]

inflation is only costing you 27 in that save game?

Hmm yeah, maybe it's the "tax" portion changing wildly? I mean, when I'm playing I sometimes have over 150 gold/turn income, then the next turn I've -180 or whatever income. This is without changing anything at all. Fairly annoying..

 

[Koshling]

With the changes over the last three days i see my turn times going up massively.
Only my impression or is the implementation of the crime feature really a number-cruncher?

It's possible. I haven't profiled a large scale game with the new changes in. All my play testing has been on a relatively small map, so if you have a save game that illustrates the slower turns please post it and I'll run the profiler on it. Thanks in advance...

 

[DRJ]

It's possible. I haven't profiled a large scale game with the new changes in. All my play testing has been on a relatively small map, so if you have a save game that illustrates the slower turns please post it and I'll run the profiler on it. Thanks in advance...

lol just look at the savegames I posted in last post - GEM minor start, many (barb) units... I have firefox and videos running simultaneously in between the turns to not get too bored (were up to 1,5 minutes in middle/late prehistoric, now down to about 1 min in beginning ancient) , thx to the windowed mode and my relatively new laptop with good graphic card it works at once (only 4 Gig Ram though).
I still have fun playing and I hope I can play with about 30 sec times between turn in medieval...

 

[Koshling]

lol just look at the savegames I posted in last post - GEM minor start, many (barb) units... I have firefox and videos running simultaneously in between the turns to not get too bored (were up to 1,5 minutes in middle/late prehistoric, now down to about 1 min in beginning ancient) , thx to the windowed mode and my relatively new laptop with good graphic card it works at once (only 4 Gig Ram though).
I still have fun playing and I hope I can play with about 30 sec times between turn in medieval...

Right, but is this a change in the last few days and it was fast before that? Flinx is specifically suggesting that crime has increased his turn times with recent changes to the SVN. Can you confirm that you are also seeing a significant change over the past (say) week?

 

[DRJ]

Right, but is this a change in the last few days and it was fast before that? Flinx is specifically suggesting that crime has increased his turn times with recent changes to the SVN. Can you confirm that you are also seeing a significant change over the past (say) week?

My intuition says yes. Although my game with new settings has minor civ start and on GEM that masses up more troops in general so it could also be that factor that made my turns longer regarding to prior, pretty fast turns GEM which I ended to play in late classical age due to exploiting pillage with Elite bandit raiders (file can be found under scenarios for turn time test)

 

[Koshling]

Just found a way to reproduce the movement bug (canoe path over land) This time it's reverse as an Eagle wants to fly over water (couldn't we have a seagull with this ability maybe [scouting sea]? Or a pigeon - just think of Noah?)

Try to move the Eagle from Toulouse to Valencia to reproduce it.

It paths fine for me (with latest SVN). It's still doing it for you when you reload this save game? Do you know which SVN version you were running at the time (or now if it does reproduce for you).

I'll take a look at the stuck stack next...

 

[DRJ]

I believe it was rev2182, I patch every 2 days or so.
Did you look at the turn time of that save? how long is a turn for you, do you think it's "normal"?

 

[Koshling]

I believe it was rev2182, I patch every 2 days or so.
Did you look at the turn time of that save? how long is a turn for you, do you think it's "normal"?

Does it still reproduce for you today if you reload it? (the eagle weird move I mean). I assume you meant 2082 (we're not up to 2182 yet!). If so try with the latest. The speculative fix for the issue went in in rev 2110.

I'm currently looking at your stuck stack issue. You were right - they are confused defenders who can't find anything local to defend any more. They wind up trying to retreat to another city, but the code for that was intended for units seeking safety and if there isn't a close enough city to retreat to it assumes it's better off seeking local safety. In this case they are on good defensive terrain so they stay put!

That behaviour is inappropriate for a large defnse stack, so I'll tweak it.

I haven't looked at turn times yet, and even when I do I probably can't give you a definative answer on whether it's abnormal for two reasons:

• With different hardware what's normal for me and normal you you are hard to compare
• I don't intend to run the turn with the public build, but with the profile build. What that will tell me is exactly how much time is being spent in various different routines, so I'll be able to see what the functional 'hot spots' are for that game. If handling properties turns out to be a large consumer of the turn time then we'll be able to declare the new crime handling 'guilty as charged' (and hopefully do soemthing about it). If some other hot spot emerges then it's probably not a new issue and I may or may not try to do something about it now. If there are no particular hot spots and the time is just spread fairly evenly then there isn't much to be done (at least easily) and you just have a large-maps-are-slow issue.

I'll let you know what I find...

Edit - actually the Romans are REALLY screwed in that game since they have 0 gold and a negative income so that entire stack gets disbanded forcibly next turn anyway! However, that won't stop me fixing the stuck behaviour it had - just won't help them in that game

 

[DRJ]

Does it still reproduce for you today if you reload it? (the eagle weird move I mean). I assume you meant 2082 (we're not up to 2182 yet!). If so try with the latest. The speculative fix for the issue went in in rev 2110.

I'm currently looking at your stuck stack issue. You were right - they are confused defenders who can't find anything local to defend any more. They wind up trying to retreat to another city, but the code for that was intended for units seeking safety and if there isn't a close enough city to retreat to it assumes it's better off seeking local safety. In this case they are on good defensive terrain so they stay put!

That behaviour is inappropriate for a large defnse stack, so I'll tweak it.

I haven't looked at turn times yet, and even when I do I probably can't give you a definative answer on whether it's abnormal for two reasons:

• With different hardware what's normal for me and normal you you are hard to compare
• I don't intend to run the turn with the public build, but with the profile build. What that will tell me is exactly how much time is being spent in various different routines, so I'll be able to see what the functional 'hot spots' are for that game. If handling properties turns out to be a large consumer of the turn time then we'll be able to declare the new crime handling 'guilty as charged' (and hopefully do soemthing about it). If some other hot spot emerges then it's probably not a new issue and I may or may not try to do something about it now. If there are no particular hot spots and the time is just spread fairly evenly then there isn't much to be done (at least easily) and you just have a large-maps-are-slow issue.

I'll let you know what I find...

Edit - actually the Romans are REALLY screwed in that game since they have 0 gold and a negative income so that entire stack gets disbanded forcibly next turn anyway! However, that won't stop me fixing the stuck behaviour it had - just won't help them in that game

Ah that explains it, of course I had rev2102 not 2182 ;-) So, nice its fixed now.

Regarding the stuck stack, great you'll tweak it!

And thx for explaining how you find the hot spots, would you mind making a documentation about that at some time, maybe? Like how to use a profile build for analyzing?

I like the

• style

btw. makes it easier to understand^^

 

[BlueGenie]

I might have some insight into when the weird land/water pathing occurs. I get them now and then too but ONLY after an opposing unit has been given a command (skip turn or given orders to move).
So my Hunter can get a red circle when I check it's path to somewhere if the unit before was a water based unit. Once I move the hunter though it's set right again for the next landbased unit, unless, of course, the next unit it a water based unit, in which case it can happen for that one.
It's not all the time on switch domain unit but it's often enough to become a pattern. Now you know what to look for K.
Why it happens I can only speculate upon but it seems path caching just might have something to do with it... *wink*

Cheers

 

[Koshling]

I might have some insight into when the weird land/water pathing occurs. I get them now and then too but ONLY after an opposing unit has been given a command (skip turn or given orders to move).
So my Hunter can get a red circle when I check it's path to somewhere if the unit before was a water based unit. Once I move the hunter though it's set right again for the next landbased unit, unless, of course, the next unit it a water based unit, in which case it can happen for that one.
It's not all the time on switch domain unit but it's often enough to become a pattern. Now you know what to look for K.
Why it happens I can only speculate upon but it seems path caching just might have something to do with it... *wink*

Cheers

Right. That accords with my theory, and was what the fix in rev 2110 was intended to address. Have you seen it since rev 2110? If so and you're able to reproduce it somehow save + recipe appreciated ;-)