[MOD] v41 SVN and GithubDesktop Bugs and Crashes Single player

[Somebody613]

As of Medieval, [Pont du Gard] and [Cleopatra's Needle] aren't adjusted to the Single City game option.
Whether intentional or a bug.
Could be more stuff, and I'm sure more will crop up in the future eras.

 

[Thunderbrd]

It only effects the city it is built in, therefore it is not a national wonder.

I don't see that as the prereq for being a national wonder. NW's can be used to specialize a city in the empire to give it something no other city in the land can get that is an abnormally high modifier for a normal building. (+25% research for example shouldn't be available in every city.)

Is there only one scientific academy in the USA?

No but only one Smithsonian, for example. This is why I say it should have a more compelling name (though one that is generic enough that every player can get one.)

These are just my counterpoints. Interesting arguments made.

Out of sheer curiosity, is this being worked on? Or is it in a holding pattern?

Thanks!

Anything I need to address has been in a holding pattern to a degree as it's been a while since I've coded. I've decided I want to address it soon though. Within the next week I'm hoping.

 

[Blazenclaw]

Sidenote: not sure I like that every tile improvement now has a cost. Especially early game when 5 or 10 can be rather crushing to early treasury. And I am Not going to lighten up on the early Civics to help this crunch either. The modder that added these costs to every tile Improvement is seeminglt using hydromancerX's method of multiples of 5 for improvement costs. For C2C in early Preh era this is too much from what I have found over the years. 1, 2, or 3 steps are better IMHPO from playing and then modding this mod over the past 11 years. My Modding 2 s.

That was my doing a little while back to bring a bit more relative balance to improvement costs (if a path costs 1, then the cheapest improvements ought to cost more than that; 3 would be reasonable as well, but not 0). The values are not perfect ofc, but it's the general principle (and increments of ~5 are easy to assign + players understand).

The thing I'd like to point out in your comment is "For C2C in early Preh era". In early prehistoric era - before tribalism - you're lucky to have a city with 4 pop, which means you're really only needing 4-5 improvements (unless you play with a high resource density). At 5 per improvement, you're looking at only 25 or so; this is on par with upgrading a single unit right around tribalism, and should be an amount easily obtainable (single tribal village, lowering tech rate for a few turns, etc). One should not be covering every single owned tile with seasonal camps in literally the very first era of the game; that should only done when one has excess gold/production to support it.

Later in prehistoric once you start to get multiple cities, this cost will of course grow - but that's part of the check to overly rapid expansion, and is when you start to get more dedicated buildings anyway. It makes it more of an interesting choice how to spend gold - tech, maintenance for cities, improving infrastructure, or military purposes - rather than just maxing out tech and pouring excess into growing # of cities.

 

[Thunderbrd]

That was my doing a little while back to bring a bit more relative balance to improvement costs (if a path costs 1, then the cheapest improvements ought to cost more than that; 3 would be reasonable as well, but not 0). The values are not perfect ofc, but it's the general principle (and increments of ~5 are easy to assign + players understand).

The thing I'd like to point out in your comment is "For C2C in early Preh era". In early prehistoric era - before tribalism - you're lucky to have a city with 4 pop, which means you're really only needing 4-5 improvements (unless you play with a high resource density). At 5 per improvement, you're looking at only 25 or so; this is on par with upgrading a single unit right around tribalism, and should be an amount easily obtainable (single tribal village, lowering tech rate for a few turns, etc). One should not be covering every single owned tile with seasonal camps in literally the very first era of the game; that should only done when you have excess gold/production to support it.

Later in prehistoric once you start to get multiple cities, this cost will of course grow - but that's part of the check to overly rapid expansion, and is when you start to get more dedicated buildings anyway. It makes it more of an interesting choice how to spend gold - tech, maintenance for cities, or improving infrastructure - rather than just maxing out tech and pouring excess into growing # of cities.

Whether I agree or not in play since I haven't experienced it nor what it does exactly to balance, I LOVE how well thought out the concept is and that you're putting this kind of consideration behind your decisions. We could probably do to put these thoughts forward a bit more explicitly so the rest of the team at least understands what they are needing to consider is in play without having to find out diving in head first into changes made we weren't aware of. Still, don't let that come across as a discouraging comment. I need to do this beforehand expressing more often myself. I do have one thing I've been planning out here that I need to run past y'all and I'll soon let you know what it is I'm working out with it. Has to do with how I figured I'd work out some bonus production modifier stuff.

 

[Blazenclaw]

We could probably do to put these thoughts forward a bit more explicitly so the rest of the team at least understands what they are needing to consider is in play without having to find out diving in head first into changes made we weren't aware of.

Fair; this was a while ago, and I thought there was some brief discussion on the discord about it - it came about while I was doing the build improvement changes and wanted to fix the 'building a windmill costs as much as freaking terraforming an entire plot' balance issue - but true I don't recall explicitly writing out the logic. Well, it's basically this

Of course with current gold inflation the costs are essentially arbitrary/meaningless for everything past classical era, but once a building review is - eventually - completed, this can be re-examined, and in the meantime has a basic structure to build off of for new improvements, etc.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Fair; this was a while ago, and I thought there was some brief discussion on the discord about it - it came about while I was doing the build improvement changes and wanted to fix the 'building a windmill costs as much as freaking terraforming an entire plot' balance issue - but true I don't recall explicitly writing out the logic. Well, it's basically this

Of course with current gold inflation the costs are essentially arbitrary/meaningless for everything past classical era, but once a building review is - eventually - completed, this can be re-examined, and in the meantime has a basic structure to build off of for new improvements, etc.

Yeah sounds like it could easily become a major thing if we grow the costs by tech progress further. Yet another possible way to address gold glut later in the game.

 

[Palador]

Been enjoying this mod for years. Keep up the great work, thank you!

I'm using the latest SVN. Noticed a problem with some units, such as the Mammoth Rider, that are produced and do not inherit the promotions that should come with them naturally. Mammoth Rider current does not have the Arctic I, II, III natural (free) promotions. Probably a problem with other units but have not noticed it yet.

Also, quick question about the new cultural system in the mod. I've been playing this great mod for many years and just noticed the new changes. I'm getting used to the new cultural system for Civs (i.e. "adopted" cultures, C.Ac., C.L., C.N.), but I'm not sure it is working as intended in the current SVN. I have the Maya native culture and captured Persia wit the C.L. Middle Eastern culture. In previous versions of the mod you'd just integrate that new culture in all cities but now it says that "Adopting a culture into your empire (having 3 (+mapsize variant) of the same C.L. s across all your cities) will result in all your cities being able to construct that C.L.". I have 3 cities with Middle Eastern culture now but cannot build Middle Eastern culture into my old Mayan cities. Another part of the Pedia says similarly: "By owning 3 cities with the same "Local Culture" that differs from your native culture, you will get that foreign culture as an "Adopted Culture". When I read below that, it says "Requires C.L. Middle Eastern (6 Total).

I'm playing on Gigantic map size. So, do I have to build 6 cities with Middle Eastern C.L. to be able to integrate Middle Eastern into my old cities? I thought it was 3 at first...a little confused.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I'm using the latest SVN. Noticed a problem with some units, such as the Mammoth Rider, that are produced and do not inherit the promotions that should come with them naturally. Mammoth Rider current does not have the Arctic I, II, III natural (free) promotions. Probably a problem with other units but have not noticed it yet.

Known issue planned for a fix very soon.

The rest is to @Toffer90

 

[Blazenclaw]

... now it says that "Adopting a culture into your empire (having 3 (+mapsize variant) of the same C.L. s across all your cities) will result in all your cities being able to construct that C.L.".
...
I'm playing on Gigantic map size.

Yeah, the "+ mapsize variant" is because the number depends on mapsize; for gigantic, it's probably precisely 6 as the tooltip elsewhere suggests.

As a rule of thumb, if there's a discrepancy in pedia text and tooltip or other calculated info, the dynamically created info (e.g. not something that a poor schmuck had to manually type out and hope is always accurate) is what you want to go by; in this case, it's kinda annoying to get the pedia text to dynamically update the threshold number of cities based on the current map size, so just '3' or '3 + mapsize' was used.

Given you already have three cities with M.E. culture, your options are to build/settle (from the existing three) or capture/buy a net total of three additional cities, if you want to adopt M.E. culture and thus build it locally in into your other existing cities.

 

[Palador]

Yeah, the "+ mapsize variant" is because the number depends on mapsize; for gigantic, it's probably precisely 6 as the tooltip elsewhere suggests.

As a rule of thumb, if there's a discrepancy in pedia text and tooltip or other calculated info, the dynamically created info (e.g. not something that a poor schmuck had to manually type out and hope is always accurate) is what you want to go by; in this case, it's kinda annoying to get the pedia text to dynamically update the threshold number of cities based on the current map size, so just '3' or '3 + mapsize' was used.

Given you already have three cities with M.E. culture, your options are to build/settle (from the existing three) or capture/buy a net total of three additional cities, if you want to adopt M.E. culture and thus build it locally in into your other existing cities.

Thank you for the reply. Played it out the stretch and, yes, it took 6 cities for the gigantic map. I understand the mechanic and like the logic of it. However, it may be too extreme to have to build that many cities since, on top of building that many cities with the new culture, we still have to build the C.L. culture building in our old cities to adopt the new culture. Just a suggestion--it would be good to leave it to 3 cities no matter the map size, but slightly ramp up the cost (production, hammers) of adopting the new culture (C.L. building) into our old cities.

Really enjoy the direction the mod has taken. Hope one day someone finds a way to have the program use more than 4 GB of memory, as I understand it the limitation of the old game engine. It would be good to play this on larger scale maps with all the civilizations that were included several years back.

 

[Palador]

Diplomat-Negotiators from building the Negotiators hut are missing--can't build them despite meeting all the build criteria. I was curious if it was taken out or not yet integrated. I was curious about the mechanics and strategies would be like for using early-stage diplomats before the discovery of Writing.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Diplomat-Negotiators from building the Negotiators hut are missing--can't build them despite meeting all the build criteria. I was curious if it was taken out or not yet integrated. I was curious about the mechanics and strategies would be like for using early-stage diplomats before the discovery of Writing.

A WIP that hasn't moved forward for a while and probably won't but invites us to resolve at some point.

 

[Palador]

Blitz promotion requires Military Science tech, Combat III, and "Refuel in Air" promotions. I think it is probably meant to be "Tactics" instead. Was trying to promote a Warlord to Blitz and found this to be odd.

Blitz now has a -25% experience from Combat attached. That's a pretty heavy reduction.

 

[Palador]

Can't build a Breeding Pair-Horse unit without having Myth Effect-Horse, even though I built the Central Breeder-Horse building.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Later in prehistoric once you start to get multiple cities, this cost will of course grow - but that's part of the check to overly rapid expansion, and is when you start to get more dedicated buildings anyway. It makes it more of an interesting choice how to spend gold - tech, maintenance for cities, improving infrastructure, or military purposes - rather than just maxing out tech and pouring excess into growing # of cities.

Other modders and players have said this very thing for years. Problem is it is not true. Core Sid Meier's Civ game Is about maxing out tech and growing your empire. It's a constant for any 4X bases game. Now Sid did try to allow players to be builders. But the War Dogs always ruin that in the end.

As for overly rapid expansion, that was curbed years ago. And really now is a personal perspective. Also are you really over expanding when you have 3 cities by the Start of Ancient Era?.

I mange my empires finances very strict. That said I got terrible howls over the early Civics that are available in Preh era when I tightened up the gold flow as well as over rapid research. But the players adjusted.

My suggestion of Not using multiples of 5 for costs comes from many many years of correcting HydromancerX's predilection for over using that system. And the problems it incurs in the late game stages.

Also

not sure I like that every tile improvement now has a cost.

This is opinion on 1st impression. Your explanation does not alleviate this 1st impression either. Nor does it really answer the question, "Why does Every Tile improvement have to have a 5 or 10 cost"?

We shall see how this pans out in the long run. My opinion Now is that moderated steps of the 1, 2, and 3 costs dependent upon the commonality of the tile improvement will be a better approach. As stated in my opinion....I have voiced my concern. Have a great day.

 

[garfunkel]

Myth - Goat does not provide science:



And it's not just the tooltip, this is what city view shows afterwards:



I'm like 99% sure that this worked correctly earlier.

 

[jatkinson]

You have Animal Husbandry that removes the Science beaker, this is working as intended.

 

[DC0]

SVN 11295
Wallaby and Tasmanian Devil can't build corresponding Myth buildings. However their descriptions say they can build Myth buildings.

 

[Thunderbrd]

You have Animal Husbandry that removes the Science beaker, this is working as intended.

Yeah, what I don't like about it is that it stops showing the +1 but keeps showing the -1 (at tech you already have but isn't specifying that). At SOME point I'd like us to reconsider how to express this.

 

[Somebody613]

Yeah, what I don't like about it is that it stops showing the +1 but keeps showing the -1 (at tech you already have but isn't specifying that). At SOME point I'd like us to reconsider how to express this.

A lot of such stuff is lingering here and there.
And it also muddles the "choose filters" functionality, since "it will give you +Food with Tech_X" is sometimes filtered IN, sometimes OUT.
Not too critical, but it tends to annoy me in certain situations.