[MOD] v41 SVN and GithubDesktop Bugs and Crashes Single player

Upload save turn or two before any partisans appear.

I am able to reproduce the CTD with attached save following these steps.

1. Use the partisans surrounding Mumbai to capture it (it should turn barbarian).
2. Attack a spawned partisan with one of your partisan unit to CTD. (Sometimes it doesn't happen, reload & repeat until it does.)
3. If you save before step 2 and reload, the attack will work without CTD.

Also, here are two clips of me reproducing the CTD following above steps.
CTD Event 1 | CTD Event 2

(Video 2 is better because it show me using the context menu to direct the move that caused the CTD where as in video 1, I used the keyboard so you just see the crash.)

Also, on a side note, observe all those entertainers the AI has been sitting there wasting production on. I guess dogs are out and entertainers are in.
 

Attachments

  • Augustus Caesar August 20, AD-1891.CivBeyondSwordSave
    6.9 MB · Views: 12
Last edited:
Hi - I've just updated to the latest SVN version (11407), and criminal units (currently exiles, thieves, and rogues) are no longer available to be built in my city, despite having both Exile Practices and a Thieves' Hideout there. I can't find anything in the version log which might have removed them, and I don't remember seeing any conversations in the last few weeks indicating they might be removed (besides which, there's nothing showing in the Civilopedia which might indicate they've been disabled). Can someone take a look and advise? There are some valuable purposes for these units I'd like to use, and this is cramping my gameplay more than a little.
 

Attachments

  • James BC-10577.CivBeyondSwordSave
    2.4 MB · Views: 96
Hi - I've just updated to the latest SVN version (11407), and criminal units (currently exiles, thieves, and rogues) are no longer available to be built in my city, despite having both Exile Practices and a Thieves' Hideout there. I can't find anything in the version log which might have removed them, and I don't remember seeing any conversations in the last few weeks indicating they might be removed (besides which, there's nothing showing in the Civilopedia which might indicate they've been disabled). Can someone take a look and advise? There are some valuable purposes for these units I'd like to use, and this is cramping my gameplay more than a little.
If you have access to neanderthal units then that's the reason you no longer have access to criminal units, it's a trade off.
 
Also, on a side note, observe all those entertainers the AI has been sitting there wasting production on. I guess dogs are out and entertainers are in.
It takes a Ton of storytellers/entertainers to deal with Education again. :p
 
Storys and stories were OP, annoying and spammy (400 buildings in entertainment line units), you could get +200 education from them if you got 200 types of animals.
Now you get maybe +20 education from folklore at maximum, and you need techs for education boost from folklore.

On other hand all those regular buildings - ones that aren't wonder, civic, religious, corporate, or unbuildable - now never obsolete, or are obsoleted long after replacement is available.
This helps starting new cities.

That save is in Atomic era.
 
Checking some promotions in World Builder, I saw Sentry 2 missing. It may be a mistake, since it is necessary in order to get Sentry 3 which is present.

Sentry promo WB.jpg


sentry promo pedia.jpg
 
Storys and stories were OP, annoying and spammy (400 buildings in entertainment line units), you could get +200 education from them if you got 200 types of animals.
Now you get maybe +20 education from folklore at maximum, and you need techs for education boost from folklore.

On other hand all those regular buildings - ones that aren't wonder, civic, religious, corporate, or unbuildable - now never obsolete, or are obsoleted long after replacement is available.
This helps starting new cities.

That save is in Atomic era.
I don't quite agree with your assessment on education raxo. Nor on Story and Stories being "spammy". How many players actually get 200 animal varieties in a game. I sure don't!

Coming out of Preh Era into Ancient on a Long GS game I need 12 Story tellers just to keep from having a Negative education value per turn in my Capital city. This is trending towards the old way where you had to support way too many education units to keep a positive number per turn. See Screenshot. Also I need 6 Watchmen and 5 Healers to control Crime and Disease.

And I also have a slight disagreement about regular buildings helping new cities as well.

On an unrelated note I came to complain about captured units in Preh and Ancient Eras. When you capture a mil or non mil unit upgrading a stone thrower to 1st Slinger and then 2nd Archer is very expensive and excessive. 186 Gold in early Ancient to upgrade a stonethrower to an archer! (Cause that is the only unit a captured mil unit converts to 1st (or to gatherer/worker) ).

And I still am not happy with the high costs of upgrading any tile with an improvement. The costs are all again too high imho.
 

Attachments

  • Civ4ScreenShot0072.JPG
    Civ4ScreenShot0072.JPG
    334 KB · Views: 17
Education: Buildings mergers and replacements is important effect once Classical era begins - that is having bit more education income compared before replacement overhaul.
Storys and Stories used to be Ancient/Classical era things.
So seems like you got hit be the nerf, that happened when I replaced old myths with folklore.

Same for regular buildings helping new cities: Productivity lost due to obsoletion was a factor starting at Classical era, so not much difference for very early game.

For unit upgrades: Upgrade cost is difference between price of old and new unit, maybe it should be scaled?

For improvement upgrade time: I don't remember it being changed in XML, might be bug in code

Also properties are linear while its decay towards 0 is exponential.
You have much more education compared to what you need for max benefits!
You won't get more benefits once education is above:
Prehistoric - 100
Ancient - 250 (you have 875 - can safely remove story tellers!)
Classical - 500
Medieval - 1000
Renaissance - 2500
Industrial - 5000
Modern - 7500
Information - 10000
Nanotech - 20000
Transhuman - 30000
Galactic - 40000
Cosmic - 50000
Transcendant - 60000

Disease and crime also are in negatives - no need for so many of those property control units too!
So it WILL trend towards equilibrium no matter how many units you have - You can't see if equilibrium is in safe zone/maxed out bonus currently.
I suggested change to UI, so you can know when to stop adding units without trying to calculate it.

AI also has same issue most likely, where it can't see equilibrium being in safe zone, and just keeps adding units, when thing starts trending towards 0.
 
Last edited:
Disease and crime also are in negatives - no need for so many of those property control units too!
If you ignore the crime and disease, and let it run, when you do address it you will have to build many of the units to get it under control. You do run out of buildings and money early game.

I only add a unit when it creeps up to a positive 4 or 5 per turn. Growing pop adds more of each so when your city grows another pop each has to be dealt with.

Also this is a new Game not an old one.
You can't see if equilibrium is in safe zone/maxed out bonus currently.
I suggested change to UI, so you can know when to stop adding units without trying to calculate it.
What are you talking about here?

I only add a unit (crime.disease) after the #/turn goes positive, and that when it hits +4 or +5.

Education is crucial to always be Positive. A short time being negative in educ. can make for slowed down research. And on Immortal the AI already gets way too many free techs at game start. Sp the chase to catch up is even more elongated thru the Eras.
Also properties are linear while its decay towards 0 is exponential.
You have much more education compared to what you need for max benefits!
You won't get more benefits once education is above:

Prehistoric - 100
Ancient - 250 (you have 875 - can safely remove story tellers!)
Classical - 500
Medieval - 1000
Renaissance - 2500
Industrial - 5000
Modern - 7500
Information - 10000
Nanotech - 20000
Transhuman - 30000
Galactic - 40000
Cosmic - 50000
Transcendant - 60000
When did this occur for Education? It has always been more education gives more benefits. Does ThunderBrd know this was done to his Education set up??? There were 10 levels of increasing bad results from poor to no education and 10 levels of increased benifits for increasing Education levels. I have not looked in the xml for awhile now to see if His Education system was changed.
 
If you ignore the crime and disease, and let it run, when you do address it you will have to build many of the units to get it under control. You do run out of buildings and money early game.

I only add a unit when it creeps up to a positive 4 or 5 per turn. Growing pop adds more of each so when your city grows another pop each has to be dealt with.

I only add a unit (crime.disease) after the #/turn goes positive, and that when it hits +4 or +5.

Most of that +4 or +5 may be from decay.
If you have -100 disease, and it wouldn't change without decay, then with decay you have +4.

So to not waste money on units I build them only when disease/crime rises above -40, and trend is positive.
This way I don't waste units on fighting decay.

When did this occur for Education? It has always been more education gives more benefits. Does ThunderBrd know this was done to his Education set up??? There were 10 levels of increasing bad results from poor to no education and 10 levels of increased benifits for increasing Education levels. I have not looked in the xml for awhile now to see if His Education system was changed.
It was like this since education was set up, or at least maybe year after it was set up.
You keep forgetting this.

You unlock one level of positives and negatives per each lifestyle, so 13 levels.
Only argumentative awareness and blissful ignorance isn't tied to eras.

On discord I suggested refactor of this - each later level would replace all earlier levels so you can instantly see cumulative effect.
This also would fix confusion between era gated and ungated parts of education system.

See propertyinfos xml log history on SVN for entire history on that file - all education buildings are listed here.
Code:
<PropertyBuildings>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_PLUS1</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>100</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>2000000</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_PLUS2</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>250</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>2000000</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_PLUS3</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>500</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>2000000</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_PLUS4</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>1000</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>2000000</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_PLUS5</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>2500</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>2000000</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_PLUS6</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>5000</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>2000000</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_PLUS7</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>7500</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>2000000</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_PLUS8</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>10000</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>2000000</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_PLUS9</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>20000</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>2000000</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_PLUS10</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>30000</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>2000000</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_PLUS11</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>40000</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>2000000</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_PLUS12</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>50000</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>2000000</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_PLUS13</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>60000</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>2000000</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_MINUS1</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>-2000000</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>-100</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_MINUS2</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>-2000000</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>-250</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_MINUS3</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>-2000000</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>-500</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_MINUS4</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>-2000000</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>-1000</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_MINUS5</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>-2000000</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>-2500</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_MINUS6</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>-2000000</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>-5000</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_MINUS7</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>-2000000</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>-7500</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_MINUS8</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>-2000000</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>-10000</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_MINUS9</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>-2000000</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>-20000</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_MINUS10</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>-2000000</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>-30000</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_MINUS11</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>-2000000</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>-40000</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_MINUS12</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>-2000000</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>-50000</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_MINUS13</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>-2000000</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>-60000</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_NAT_PLUS1</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>100</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>2000000</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_NAT_PLUS2</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>250</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>2000000</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_NAT_PLUS3</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>500</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>2000000</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_NAT_PLUS4</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>1000</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>2000000</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_NAT_PLUS5</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>2500</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>2000000</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_NAT_PLUS6</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>5000</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>2000000</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_NAT_PLUS7</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>7500</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>2000000</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_NAT_PLUS8</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>10000</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>2000000</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_NAT_PLUS9</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>20000</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>2000000</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_NAT_PLUS10</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>30000</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>2000000</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_NAT_PLUS11</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>40000</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>2000000</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_NAT_PLUS12</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>50000</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>2000000</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_NAT_PLUS13</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>60000</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>2000000</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_NAT_MINUS1</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>-2000000</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>-100</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_NAT_MINUS2</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>-2000000</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>-250</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_NAT_MINUS3</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>-2000000</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>-500</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_NAT_MINUS4</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>-2000000</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>-1000</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_NAT_MINUS5</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>-2000000</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>-2500</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_NAT_MINUS6</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>-2000000</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>-5000</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_NAT_MINUS7</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>-2000000</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>-7500</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_NAT_MINUS8</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>-2000000</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>-10000</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_NAT_MINUS9</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>-2000000</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>-20000</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_NAT_MINUS10</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>-2000000</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>-30000</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_NAT_MINUS11</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>-2000000</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>-40000</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_NAT_MINUS12</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>-2000000</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>-50000</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
                <PropertyBuilding>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDING_EQ_NAT_MINUS13</BuildingType>
                    <iMinValue>-2000000</iMinValue>
                    <iMaxValue>-60000</iMaxValue>
                </PropertyBuilding>
            </PropertyBuildings>
 
Last edited:
I have a partisan transporting an ICBM. Guessing this is a bug.

I've noticed they can transport things before and thought that was odd, but yeah ...

Spoiler Screenshot :


 
It was like this since education was set up, or at least maybe year after it was set up.
You keep forgetting this.

@raxo2222 , I have not dealt with any xml but Civics for several years now. And I will turn 70 next month. Forgetting who did what and when over a mod's files is not a real priority anymore. ;) I'm Blessed to remember what I still do! :D

I also thought (and back in the early days) said so to T-brd that the iminvalues were too close together. Especially with imaxvalue at 2million. Does anyone ever get close to that 2 million ceiling? But that is of no real consequence anyway.
 
@raxo2222
I also thought (and back in the early days) said so to T-brd that the iminvalues were too close together. Especially with imaxvalue at 2million. Does anyone ever get close to that 2 million ceiling? But that is of no real consequence anyway.
imaxvalue ceiling is set so high, so its impossible to reach it - that is effectively no upper limit for that building.
If it was much lower so its reachable, then property pseudobuilding would despawn once property is high enough.
 
I am able to reproduce the CTD with attached save following these steps.

1. Use the partisans surrounding Mumbai to capture it (it should turn barbarian).
2. Attack a spawned partisan with one of your partisan unit to CTD. (Sometimes it doesn't happen, reload & repeat until it does.)
3. If you save before step 2 and reload, the attack will work without CTD.

Also, here are two clips of me reproducing the CTD following above steps.
CTD Event 1 | CTD Event 2

(Video 2 is better because it show me using the context menu to direct the move that caused the CTD where as in video 1, I used the keyboard so you just see the crash.)

Also, on a side note, observe all those entertainers the AI has been sitting there wasting production on. I guess dogs are out and entertainers are in.
What SVN are you on?
I can't reproduce on latest git, the partisan spawn in south east rather than north west, and I tried killing it 4-5 times without game CTD'ing.
 
@raxo2222 I don't recall on discord where we were just discussing some of this but something occurred to me here - with the non-compiling building system combined with tech prerequisites being maintained, we haven't introduced a problem where when you get more education than the cap of the education range for a particular level, that the whole modifying education building doesn't just vanish to be replaced by nothing past that point since that building requires a tech you aren't up to yet do we?

@JosEPh_II It's been a while since I played last so you might be right that it's a bit too challenging to keep edu high at the moment. It was also possible that we had it way too easy - I mean I recall not having to have any units at all for that purpose last I played and if you did it would've been a waste. I'd have to see where we are now and do want to get into a playtest soon but I'll be moving on the 13th and after so it'll be a bit yet. We have successfully bagged our first home and should be signing closing docs at title on tuesday :D. I would probably like to have a little more challenge in education so as to be able to make the unit benefits a bit stronger in response than to have a glut ton of buildings giving education like it's candy on halloween to be collected to the point that education is ridiculously easy to maintain. It's also supposed to be strategically possible, even somewhat desirable, to at times WANT and be capable of achieving, low education. Part of my unit plans should allow the player more ability to grow AND shrink education levels for strategic reasons - but that's probably more of a late game/modern era factor.

In regards to imin values being too close.. yeah maybe but it should be an equation based expansion so at some point, it may make sense to adjust the equation we began with here. I think when education units are actually designed past medieval era, yes some more truly huge numbers in late game are probably going to matter but at the moment no, I'm sure they do seem silly as it is. I was kinda thinking the outerlimits would be nearly impossible and that's maybe fine? Anyhow, late game stuff is not really going to be easily balanced without proper unit progressions and then taking some measurements after those are included and seeing if we want to change the contribution values of units and buildings or the chart itself. At this stage of design, imbalance is to be expected since there are entire missing pieces of the framing here.

And I will turn 70 next month.
Holy hell dude! Thanks for sticking with us for so many of these years! I so wish I was in my retirement years so I had so much more for this project! And I have numerous other irons ready to go into the fire as it stands, but I swear I'm not going to let this whole thing fall off my radar even if I have to work it slower than ever. I just hope you'll be like Betty here and be able to spend another (almost) 30 with us.

I know you've pointed to some other costing issues as well - keep in mind that we need room for some trait modifiers to matter and it can make for some civic modifiers to matter more as well. When you talk of costs of improvements, are you speaking of gold or production time?

We may well finally be at a point where we need to start increasing player gold income? If its challenging that's refreshing because it gives us room to keep some tension there and make prioritizing for gold make a strategic choice that can matter. This is what we've been looking for right? Obviously there IS a point where it's too hard. The design in this game often feels like we're all chasing a tail that is linked to every other tail we're all chasing and our solutions just keep creating problems elsewhere leading us to the neverending search for the golden solution that doesn't introduce as many issues as it solves or more. Anyhow, we're all trying I think.

I don't mean all this to feel angled towards you - sometimes I just find you're someone I like to speak openly to more than some because of your direct criticisms inviting depth of consideration.
 
@raxo2222 I don't recall on discord where we were just discussing some of this but something occurred to me here - with the non-compiling building system combined with tech prerequisites being maintained, we haven't introduced a problem where when you get more education than the cap of the education range for a particular level, that the whole modifying education building doesn't just vanish to be replaced by nothing past that point since that building requires a tech you aren't up to yet do we?
For early game it was a problem even before my changes to replacements and obsoletions on easier handicaps. That is it was easy to max out - maybe because cities are smaller now.
Then there was not enough education sources to max it out in future eras.

Or if you are talking about education using replacement system, then they all have max value of +2000 000 so they never despawn.
You just have highest one available depending on era and education level
 
For early game it was a problem even before my changes to replacements and obsoletions on easier handicaps. That is it was easy to max out - maybe because cities are smaller now.
Then there was not enough education sources to max it out in future eras.

Or if you are talking about education using replacement system, then they all have max value of +2000 000 so they never despawn.
You just have highest one available depending on era and education level
I was just worried that if you have a range of 1-1000 say, and past 1000 the next level has all the modifiers of the first and 2nd lvl included then if you're past 1000 education but haven't qualified for the next level by tech yet then you lose the 1st level and it doesn't get replaced by that second level building so you end up completely unmodified for having gone too far. It depends on what you mean by using the replacement system and since I'm not looking at the xml, I'm assuming there COULD be an issue when using ranges to define what building should be in effect.
 
Top Bottom