Vatican Excommunicates new Chinese bishops

[Dann]

Meh. Don't care. In today's world, this event has no political, military or economic implications at all.

No disrespect to the Catholic Church but "How many divisions does the Pope have?" and all that. We're no longer living in the times of the Holy Roman Empire.

 

[Gr3yL3gion]

They should call in the crusades, if that matters.

 

[bhsup]

Meh. Don't care. In today's world, this event has no political, military or economic implications at all.

Do you not think millions of Catholic faithful may consider a boycott of PRC goods? They are currently trying to foster better economic relations with South America, which is ... what, 90+% ? ... Catholic.

 

[Dann]

No. Won't happen. Business is business.

I come from a Catholic country. The church may have some influence in politics but none when it comes to economics.

 

[bhsup]

Eh, you're probably right. Even if one were mobilized, I suppose most folks would not have the ferver to stick with a boycott over the long haul.

 

[Zarn]

I have another reason to hate the PRC. The Vatican wants to force China out of its anti-religious state. The two have been going at it for years. I doubt either side will back down any time soon.

Preaching no freedom of religion is sick. You guys should be ashamed.

 

[Xenocrates]

They don't wish to prevent religion just keep the trouble is causes down to a minimum!

 

[joycem10]

Actually, it will be better if they decided to outlaw catholics all together, but alas its a religons that is 2000 yrs with deep root and will be hard to eradicate. Agreed that the catholics in china should try be like the protestant instead and not decided to listen to someone who takes "instruction" from his "god". So who shall we listen to? The guy or the god?

Sadly, there will still be many who wanted to believe in catholism, It will be hard to remove their faith and better than letting them to be in underground. A "fake" Bishop was appointed instead.

You sound remarkably like Jack Chick. Congrats on an excellent piece of Catholic baiting.

 

[aneeshm]

The Chinese State should crack down on these Cathloics and oter religous practices with exception to philosopipes.
Religous practices have no place in an atheist state.

Would you , then , condone the action of the Afghan government in condemning a convert to death , by saying that "Apostates have no place in a Muslim state" ?

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

The pope has been assasinatied? or has the papacy been conquered, and a puppet pope put on the throne? i guess no new crusades for us yet...

 

[Dann]

I have another reason to hate the PRC. The Vatican wants to force China out of its anti-religious state. The two have been going at it for years. I doubt either side will back down any time soon.

The China of the present day is not anti-religious. All the government wants is a degree of control over all religions operating within its territory (due to China's bad historical experience with cults evolving into rebellions). Yes yes I know it's paranoia...

The whole hoohah could have been avoided if there had been dialogue between the two parties, and thus suitable candidates acceptable to both could have been chosen. The Vatican however, is a political as well as a religious entity, and currently still recognizes the ROC in lieu of the PRC which is, of course, unacceptable to China. Thus no direct communication, thus we're back to square one.

The result is the Vatican appoints its own bishops who can't operate in China, and China appoints its own bishops who end up getting excommunicated. Rest assured, though, that Catholics here still get to pray in church, hear Mass and everything. They're just cut off from the outside world, that's all.

 

[Ramius75]

You sound remarkably like Jack Chick. Congrats on an excellent piece of Catholic baiting.

haha, actually if u dont mention it, i never known of such a person. Ya, im an atheist and not really into other religion. but cathoism is another lvl on its own. I m always careful about religion that 1 human can try to speak on behalf of "god" its the most dangerous.

 

[Zarn]

The China of the present day is not anti-religious. All the government wants is a degree of control over all religions operating within its territory (due to China's bad historical experience with cults evolving into rebellions). Yes yes I know it's paranoia...

The whole hoohah could have been avoided if there had been dialogue between the two parties, and thus suitable candidates acceptable to both could have been chosen. The Vatican however, is a political as well as a religious entity, and currently still recognizes the ROC in lieu of the PRC which is, of course, unacceptable to China. Thus no direct communication, thus we're back to square one.

The result is the Vatican appoints its own bishops who can't operate in China, and China appoints its own bishops who end up getting excommunicated. Rest assured, though, that Catholics here still get to pray in church, hear Mass and everything. They're just cut off from the outside world, that's all.

If those Chinese people are truly Catholic, then they are subject to the Vatican just as much as I am. The Chinese government should have nothing to do with it. The US government does not appoint bishops. Neither does any other nation. Why should China? Historical trends are no excuse for that behavior.

Should the Church be able to pick Chinese officials now? It is only fair. Right? We do have a history of political leaders causing disruptions with the Catholic Church. German rulers, England, etc...

 

[IglooDame]

The China of the present day is not anti-religious. All the government wants is a degree of control over all religions operating within its territory (due to China's bad historical experience with cults evolving into rebellions). Yes yes I know it's paranoia...

The whole hoohah could have been avoided if there had been dialogue between the two parties, and thus suitable candidates acceptable to both could have been chosen. The Vatican however, is a political as well as a religious entity, and currently still recognizes the ROC in lieu of the PRC which is, of course, unacceptable to China. Thus no direct communication, thus we're back to square one.

The result is the Vatican appoints its own bishops who can't operate in China, and China appoints its own bishops who end up getting excommunicated. Rest assured, though, that Catholics here still get to pray in church, hear Mass and everything. They're just cut off from the outside world, that's all.

Why can't the Vatican's bishops operate in China?

 

[Xenocrates]

If the vatican chose US bishops that supported a succession movement and free immigtation (+other 'dangerous' policies) we'll see how long the US Government/media/military/business class takes to change their attitude. It's only because the other pillars of US society don't see any threat from them thay they allow papal control over bishop appointing.

It's nothing to do with free religion it's to do with who pulls the strings.

 

[Stegyre]

If the vatican chose US bishops that supported a succession movement and free immigtation (+other 'dangerous' policies) we'll see how long the US Government/media/military/business class takes to change their attitude. It's only because the other pillars of US society don't see any threat from them thay they allow papal control over bishop appointing.

It's nothing to do with free religion it's to do with who pulls the strings.

You are SOOOO RIGHT! That's exactly the reason we in the U.S. would never elect a catholic (Kennedy), or a born again (GWB), and we would never tolerate any catholic bishop opining upon illegal immigration (Roger Mahony).

Oh, wait a minute!

 

[IglooDame]

If the vatican chose US bishops that supported a succession movement and free immigtation (+other 'dangerous' policies) we'll see how long the US Government/media/military/business class takes to change their attitude. It's only because the other pillars of US society don't see any threat from them thay they allow papal control over bishop appointing.

It's nothing to do with free religion it's to do with who pulls the strings.

No, seriously, do you really think that the federal government of the US could exert any control over bishop/cardinal appointments, even if they wanted to, which I can't see that they would?

 

[Zarn]

Why shouldn't the real Catholic Chinese bishops have a voice? If the government is so great and the bishops are wrong, no one will listen to the bishops.

 

[Xenocrates]

China's situation and history is different from yours. Religion and foreign intervention has caused enormous difficulties over the years. China, unlike America, has a history.

Sure you don't see any threat from religion or foreign intervention at the moment, but wait until Islam spreads a bit more and then imagine that Iran is choosing the leaders of it.....

Catholicism is native to America (pretty well) but not to China. It's the fact that foreigners are pulling the strings that probably concerns them the most.

 

[aussieboy]

haha, actually if u dont mention it, i never known of such a person. Ya, im an atheist and not really into other religion. but cathoism is another lvl on its own. I m always careful about religion that 1 human can try to speak on behalf of "god" its the most dangerous.

Excuse me, we're not the sheep you claim us to be. The Pope has a lot of moral prestige, but a lot of the day-to-day affairs of the Church are conducted through the bishops in this day and age. These days, the Pope's power rests on the will of the members of the church, and the bishops.

BTW, Jack Chick is a well-known Catholic-baiter and anti-Catholic writer. Perhaps your crowd, hmm?