Just little update about the progress. The future era tech tree starts to take shape now as most of the techs have been added. I'd say it's now 90-95% done so I can probably upload the next test version in few days. I'm not sure if it will have RevDCM 2.0 or 2.1 merged as glider hasn't posted yet the 2.1 version. Note that the new techs are still empty and it will take whole June to add stuff and tweak them - adding new graphics for new buildings and units takes while. I'll post some tech tree screenies once I'm satisfied with the order of the techs.
Version 2.7 discussion
- Thread starter zappara
- Start date
i have been playing alot lately and i have been pretty annoyed at the fact that end game half of my cities have food issue like starving etc b/c there short 1 food unit
so i was trying to think up a fix and decide to alter the specialist merchants to give 1 food unit so i dont get starving cities all the time
its not as cool as trading food between cities but it fixes my issues with stalling pop growth or starving cities b/c its short 1 food
heres my suggestion
add in a new specialist called a "farmer" who adds +1 food +1 gold or +1 food +1 production
so i was trying to think up a fix and decide to alter the specialist merchants to give 1 food unit so i dont get starving cities all the time
its not as cool as trading food between cities but it fixes my issues with stalling pop growth or starving cities b/c its short 1 food
heres my suggestion
add in a new specialist called a "farmer" who adds +1 food +1 gold or +1 food +1 production
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
You will never ever have 20 tiles with potatoes resource in a normal game. Or any other food resource for that matter. So reaching 190+ pop city is just not gonna happen.
The food resource has been worked on since version 0.80 and has come a long way. I suggest more play time and maybe less what if time?
JosEPh
The food resource has been worked on since version 0.80 and has come a long way. I suggest more play time and maybe less what if time?
JosEPh
You will never ever have 20 tiles with potatoes resource in a normal game. Or any other food resource for that matter. So reaching 190+ pop city is just not gonna happen.
The food resource has been worked on since version 0.80 and has come a long way. I suggest more play time and maybe less what if time?
JosEPh
I'd say a fully farmed city with all food boosters (including Cereal and Sid's buildings and all farm boosting techs) and a cornered market on world seafood resources (with Sid's in the city) could get in the hundreds. Highest I've been is the seventies, but I don't build many farms.
*Drools*
*Wipes mouth*
*Drools*
Looks like you've already populated several of the techs Zap.
Will you have enough items to be able to put something into every one of them? Also, will there be any new units, buildings etc since 2.7 test1?
Any chance of an update log for 2.7 test2 to whet our appetites? *Drools... again*
*Wipes mouth*
*Drools*
Looks like you've already populated several of the techs Zap.
Will you have enough items to be able to put something into every one of them? Also, will there be any new units, buildings etc since 2.7 test1?Any chance of an update log for 2.7 test2 to whet our appetites? *Drools... again*
thinedge
Chieftain
Fantastic mod, grats to you all. Have been playing RoM a whiles now and just finished reading the 22 pages of 2.7's life and times. Some thoughts on resources & trade below. Possibly this is more of a thing for 2.8, or even 3.0?
Reality > food resources are everywhere, definitely multiple on a 400km^2 tile. With cows/pig/sheep represented, i don't think the cities without access to any of those meats are vegeterians.
Game-wise, I think we all want a balance in the visuals on the map - eg say <50% coverage with resource icons.
Perhaps is better to think of resources on map as the *excess* over some basic usage level in the city... ie the surplus available to develop an industry, or spike city growth, or for trade.
Eg in RL apparently New Zealand has >70% of the world's *tradeable* dairy product, ie over and above that consumed domestically. But by absolute volume it's clearly much less than other countries - just has far more available for trade.
Also, A gold mine in Australia produces 100% for trade - like the sheep stations surrounding it (in same 400km square). But there's nothing else there at all... no doubt growth is/was very inhibited growth/development by limited access to diversity of food/production/luxury resources as was readily available to european centres.
Applying RL to game infers recognising "local consumption by volume" - food as highest, luxury as lowest.
Not overly knowledgeable as to inner workings of civ but will tout this complex solution-idea thingy:
- limit distribution of resources, esp food, on map (to declutter)
- increase value of trade of resources, esp food eg 2+ food for every city receiving imported dairy
- decrease cost of trading food (or are whole numbers required for trades?)
- implement a growth multiplier in diplomatic trade eg +10% with refrigeration
Alternatively or additionally - apply the increased value/decreased cost idea to the in-city trade benefits. There's a good chance i've totally misread how civ does the trade thing but it seems when goods are exchanged on diplomacy screen, there's a flow-on benefit to the individual cities, but only distributes to gold/science/culture. Thus question arises as to viability of applying the above to food/production bonuses.
Finally - is it viable for the game to discern distance of trade route? Consider spoilage of shipping dairy in the 1800's vs. eg. shipping wool from Australia to London.
Thanks for listening!
Somehow I knew that point was going to be brought up and luckily I have already thought of a riposte
I was always under the assumption that a resource did not cover the whole landmass of the tile. But however I assumed that the tile represented the most notable feature of that area.... ie. there is coal here but also alot of other stuff, but they key factor being that there is coal there.
While your point makes perfect sense I would then suggest that using the same rationale there could be many different resources on any one plot. Say pigs, Iron, Oil, Trees...... while that is perfectly realistic it doesn't really make for a good gamplay situation.
I know i'm probably splitting hairs but as I said earlier, surely the resource marked on the tile is the most notable thing there and should be kept down to one per tile. But hey its a minor point and one that most people probably aren't all that bothered about
Reality > food resources are everywhere, definitely multiple on a 400km^2 tile. With cows/pig/sheep represented, i don't think the cities without access to any of those meats are vegeterians.
Game-wise, I think we all want a balance in the visuals on the map - eg say <50% coverage with resource icons.
Perhaps is better to think of resources on map as the *excess* over some basic usage level in the city... ie the surplus available to develop an industry, or spike city growth, or for trade.
Eg in RL apparently New Zealand has >70% of the world's *tradeable* dairy product, ie over and above that consumed domestically. But by absolute volume it's clearly much less than other countries - just has far more available for trade.
Also, A gold mine in Australia produces 100% for trade - like the sheep stations surrounding it (in same 400km square). But there's nothing else there at all... no doubt growth is/was very inhibited growth/development by limited access to diversity of food/production/luxury resources as was readily available to european centres.
Applying RL to game infers recognising "local consumption by volume" - food as highest, luxury as lowest.
Not overly knowledgeable as to inner workings of civ but will tout this complex solution-idea thingy:
- limit distribution of resources, esp food, on map (to declutter)
- increase value of trade of resources, esp food eg 2+ food for every city receiving imported dairy
- decrease cost of trading food (or are whole numbers required for trades?)
- implement a growth multiplier in diplomatic trade eg +10% with refrigeration
Alternatively or additionally - apply the increased value/decreased cost idea to the in-city trade benefits. There's a good chance i've totally misread how civ does the trade thing but it seems when goods are exchanged on diplomacy screen, there's a flow-on benefit to the individual cities, but only distributes to gold/science/culture. Thus question arises as to viability of applying the above to food/production bonuses.
Finally - is it viable for the game to discern distance of trade route? Consider spoilage of shipping dairy in the 1800's vs. eg. shipping wool from Australia to London.
Thanks for listening!
I hope I got enough stuff for all new techs - some things swap places from old techs to new ones too. The v2.7test2 will not have new stuff yet - I'm just beginning to add the graphics for units/buildings. I'll upload v2.7test2 today - I was going to release it couple days ago but noticed serious issues with the new civic screen and had to spent two evenings in fixing it to show all RoM modifiers (it's bit bugged in RevDCM 2.0 and WoC lite as some modifiers aren't checked).*Drools*
*Wipes mouth*
*Drools*
Looks like you've already populated several of the techs Zap.
Any chance of an update log for 2.7 test2 to whet our appetites? *Drools... again*
Here's the current change log for v2.7test2:
Spoiler :
Download Rise of Mankind v2.7test2
This version includes RevDCM 2.0 which has known problem of random events not working at all. This will be fixed once RevDCM 2.1 is released.
The other thing is that this version is very much work-in-progress shape ie. Transhuman era techs are pretty much empty and some new resources aren't in use yet. So no need to report about these things, they'll change eventually There's also bunch of small bugs that have been reported in this thread and in other threads but I haven't gone through those lists yet. If you notice any new bugs, please report them to this thread.
Have a nice weekend testing this version!
This version includes RevDCM 2.0 which has known problem of random events not working at all. This will be fixed once RevDCM 2.1 is released.
The other thing is that this version is very much work-in-progress shape ie. Transhuman era techs are pretty much empty and some new resources aren't in use yet. So no need to report about these things, they'll change eventually
There's also bunch of small bugs that have been reported in this thread and in other threads but I haven't gone through those lists yet. If you notice any new bugs, please report them to this thread. Have a nice weekend testing this version!
Jabarto
Emperor
Hey Zappara, are you planning on adding any more resources? I'm trying to decide if I should wait to update the maps in my map pack.
Afforess
The White Wizard
Zappara, with the new techs, can I add a few naming suggestions?
First, "Anti-Aging Medicine" is too complex, I would recommend "Longevity" (If its not already used somewhere else, I can't remember.) I release the purpose of "Mind Uploading," but is it a fancy way of saying "cloning" or do you have other ideas for it? Another thing, "Planetary Economics" should require a UN resolution for a universal currency ( <- hey look... a rare exception to the a, an rule...sorry I digress) and a resolution for all open borders. I realize that this means that it would limit to Diplo games, but is there a way to make the UN always on, just remove the Diplomatic Victory vote option? That would be nice. Also, are "Superconductors" a tech anymore?
First, "Anti-Aging Medicine" is too complex, I would recommend "Longevity" (If its not already used somewhere else, I can't remember.) I release the purpose of "Mind Uploading," but is it a fancy way of saying "cloning" or do you have other ideas for it? Another thing, "Planetary Economics" should require a UN resolution for a universal currency ( <- hey look... a rare exception to the a, an rule...sorry I digress) and a resolution for all open borders. I realize that this means that it would limit to Diplo games, but is there a way to make the UN always on, just remove the Diplomatic Victory vote option? That would be nice. Also, are "Superconductors" a tech anymore?
Kozmos
Jew Detective
I'd like to make the following suggestions for the next version:
-Why do the Genetic and Super Soldier look like monsters from horror action FPS videogames? With no guns to boot and just their hands/claws? It's just looks ugly and ruins the immersion. IMO supersoldiers would be genetically altered yes, but they'd still look more or less human and have weapons. (Powered Armours anyone?)
Any way to change the graphic into the ones for cyborgs instead of these wannabe headcrab zombies? Perhaps you were inspired by the Prototype game which I could understand, but wouldnt it better then to limit it to just one allowed? It would better (and more bearable for me) if they were limited to just one unit instead seeing the map littered with monsters which makes me feel like I'm playing a cheap sci-fi flick.
- Fusion or Nanite disintegration bomb. Fusion would be like a nuke except it would be clean so to speak and not leave any fallout, just the burning buildings and forests sending soot and smoke into the atmosphere. Nanite disintegration bombs would be even cleaner because they would just completely disintegrate everything into ash instead of you know, making it explode. Though you'd have to find a way to completely remove a city if it's bombed with it.
- Plasma Armor? What? On what principle does that work? Alpha Centauri stopped with Hovertanks. So should this.
- Orbital Fighters/Bombers look a bit spaceshipy. IE why do they have cockpits if we have UCAVs?
I know I sound like I'm complaining for completely frivolous reasons but I have a tendency to spot these kind of inconsistencies and then whine about it . -_-'
-Why do the Genetic and Super Soldier look like monsters from horror action FPS videogames? With no guns to boot and just their hands/claws? It's just looks ugly and ruins the immersion. IMO supersoldiers would be genetically altered yes, but they'd still look more or less human and have weapons. (Powered Armours anyone?)
Any way to change the graphic into the ones for cyborgs instead of these wannabe headcrab zombies? Perhaps you were inspired by the Prototype game which I could understand, but wouldnt it better then to limit it to just one allowed? It would better (and more bearable for me) if they were limited to just one unit instead seeing the map littered with monsters which makes me feel like I'm playing a cheap sci-fi flick.
- Fusion or Nanite disintegration bomb. Fusion would be like a nuke except it would be clean so to speak and not leave any fallout, just the burning buildings and forests sending soot and smoke into the atmosphere. Nanite disintegration bombs would be even cleaner because they would just completely disintegrate everything into ash instead of you know, making it explode. Though you'd have to find a way to completely remove a city if it's bombed with it.
- Plasma Armor? What? On what principle does that work? Alpha Centauri stopped with Hovertanks. So should this.
- Orbital Fighters/Bombers look a bit spaceshipy. IE why do they have cockpits if we have UCAVs?
I know I sound like I'm complaining for completely frivolous reasons but I have a tendency to spot these kind of inconsistencies and then whine about it . -_-'
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
In REVDCM2.0 does the BarbCIV and Start as Minor Option work without CTDs?
JosEPh
JosEPh
I can make small update for RevDCM 2.1.. just give me few days!
This v2.7test2 is full mod installation ie. you don't need 2.62 or 2.63. I'd advise not to install this on top of previous RoM version, there might be some conflicts.More importantly, can we install this on top of 2.63?
Only one sea resource might be still added and it's kelp (SMAC) so you can start converting maps now - even if maps miss kelp resource it won't be a big loss.
Longevity is used by wonder already so I had to use alternative naming for this tech. Civ 4 gets bit confused if multiple objects have exactly the same name (links do not work correctly).
About cloning - I was thinking to rename it to Mammal Cloning (or Animal Cloning) and then later there could be Human Cloning tech. Mind Uploading is different kind of "cloning", there whole human mind is transferred to digital form and people would live inside computer system without physical body (there's lots of scifi novels about this).
The UN suggestion would require some modifications to the mod ie. diplomatic victory would have to be removed from U.N. resolutions and then new voting system would have to be added which allows diplomatic victory type. I don't know if this would be possible to make... I hope there isn't any hardcoded system for diplomatic victory.
Superconductors is still in the tech tree - before Magnetic Levitation tech just like before.
The game length has been adjusted by extending it from 2050AD to 2100AD but that doesn't mean huge amount of extra turns. Tech research times have been kept same.
Genetic and Super soldier use the graphics that were available at that time when I added them to the mod. I got now some other cyborg models that I could use to replace those Afterworld mod models. The same thing applies to many units in RoM - I've had to use what has been available. There's not many unit model makers and they rarely make scifi unit models.
Nanite bomd could be fun toy...
Talking about bombs reminds me about one news article where russia tested the biggest non-nuclear bomb (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6990815.stm). I've been trying to figure out how such unit type could be added to the mod...Plasma armor - use your imagination
But yeah, I agree it's bit unrealistic unit type but hey, we're allowed to use imagination when talking about future. I haven't tested Start as Minor option but BarbCiv component has been on in my tests and I haven't noticed problems with it yet.In REVDCM2.0 does the BarbCIV and Start as Minor Option work without CTDs?
JosEPh
Kozmos
Jew Detective
- I understand I guess, but reusing the Cyborg model would have been better with leaving the monster as prototype units of great strength but of limited build limit.
- Well that's a bit different then what I had in mind. That bomb just uses nanotech to boosts it's explosive power. I've imagined it something more like this terrorist guy uses http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ay3TwmchxWA
- I was just browsing the sevopedia and liked the Hovertank then skipped to see the upgrade and saw a gray-red threaded squarish block of steel and it was just so ugly in comparison that I had to balk at it's name and purpose. Plus the image of the hovertank in this video is branded in my brain as what a future tank should be http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKcEwUcVBHs
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