Walker, Unbowed
- Thread starter DinoDoc
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Save_Ferris
Admiring Myself
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/301907/walker-unbowed-editors
I want to give a well deservedto the voters of Wisconsin for supporting this American hero. Will this victory give governors the spine to attempt to stand up for fiscal responsibility?
Walker 2020? Mitt/Walker?
This site is so liberal that is hard to tell if someone's actually conservative or just sarcastic.
ParkCungHee
Deity
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Cost of Living in Chicago is also well above the nation's average.
They already make more than the average family living in Chicago.
ParkCungHee
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So? Should we start judging all civil servants by their comparison to the average income?
How distributarian!
Shouldn't we start by cutting the salary of Scott Walker, his judges, who make several times that of a teacher?
How distributarian!
Shouldn't we start by cutting the salary of Scott Walker, his judges, who make several times that of a teacher?
Google calls bollocks on those numbers actually - http://www.teachersalaryinfo.com/average-teacher-salary-illinois.html - average salary was 57K in 2009, so couldn't possibly have "started" at 71K.
http://www.isbe.net/research/htmls/teacher_salary.htm -from the Board of Education itself, taken from the pay schedules at every public school:
Beginning teacher salary with Bachelor's Degree 2011-2012:
lowest: 25,470
median: 35,913
highest: 55,091
71K is the median among the "highest scheduled" salaries (which range from 35K to 137K). That means it is the median taken from the HIGHEST POSSIBLE PAY at every school, ie once people have years of experience and generally a master's degree or better.
http://www.isbe.net/research/htmls/teacher_salary.htm -from the Board of Education itself, taken from the pay schedules at every public school:
Beginning teacher salary with Bachelor's Degree 2011-2012:
lowest: 25,470
median: 35,913
highest: 55,091
71K is the median among the "highest scheduled" salaries (which range from 35K to 137K). That means it is the median taken from the HIGHEST POSSIBLE PAY at every school, ie once people have years of experience and generally a master's degree or better.
ParkCungHee
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So how are we determining merit?I would prefer merit pay with but they seem opposed to that.
If that's the case, wouldn't comparison to the cities average be useless?
57K is for Illinois, not Chicago. The presence of us rural downstate folks brings the average salary for the state below Chicago's average.
I would prefer merit pay with but they seem opposed to that.
No one has yet to discover a way to objectively measure teacher performance.
Incidentally, the research seems pretty conclusive that merit pay doesn't work and merit can't even be quantified properly, but whatevs, let's use our fractured ideology as a battering ram against workers organising collectively anyway.
Go through the school districts' individual records and find me the starting salary of 71,000 dollars. It's not there for any school district (I can barely find any school districts with starting salaries over 50 000 and they look like outliers).
According to the Illinois BoE, 71,000 is the median of the highest possible scheduled salary at all school districts. Somewhere along the line I strongly suspect that number has gotten taken waaaaay out of context.
57K from my first link is described as the average of all salaries to all teacher. I assume they've divided total remuneration into the number of teachers but can't find any methodology info.
Assuming this source is using data on actual pay and not just on the theoretical pay schedules that exist, then average pay in a state is going to be, in large part, a function of retention and education level. Since pay schedules are determined by both longevity and qualificiations, if you have more people staying for longer and with better qualifications, average pay is going to be higher.
Go through the school districts' individual records and find me the starting salary of 71,000 dollars. It's not there for any school district (I can barely find any school districts with starting salaries over 50 000 and they look like outliers).
According to the Illinois BoE, 71,000 is the median of the highest possible scheduled salary at all school districts. Somewhere along the line I strongly suspect that number has gotten taken waaaaay out of context.
57K from my first link is described as the average of all salaries to all teacher. I assume they've divided total remuneration into the number of teachers but can't find any methodology info.
Assuming this source is using data on actual pay and not just on the theoretical pay schedules that exist, then average pay in a state is going to be, in large part, a function of retention and education level. Since pay schedules are determined by both longevity and qualificiations, if you have more people staying for longer and with better qualifications, average pay is going to be higher.
Oh, I see what happened. I said "they're only starting from $71k" to mean "average teacher salary is now $71k." They want to raise the average salary to $92k. Teachers do not start at $71k, the starting point for negotiations is an average teacher salary of $71k.
When looking at the benefits the taxpayers of Chicago have gotten for their money, it is instructive to look at the burdens they are seeking to have the private sector workers shoulder. Can the average Chicago resident afford the tax increase coming to pay more for a failing school system?
I'm still not sure it can be 71K even just in Chicago unless high experience and education is what's driving pay up.
In the Northeast, someone with a bachelors starts at 40K and maxes out at 57K after 12 years. Someone with a Masters starts at 44K and maxes out at 79K after 21 years, unless they work additional "semster hours" in which case they start at 49K and can get to 88K after 22 years.
Going by those median schedules, if average teacher pay in Chicago is 71K then you should probably be applauding the high retention, the extra hours put in, and the high education levels of Chicago teachers.
And if they're trying to push the schedules up then perhaps they want better reward for those traits?
Edit: I just realised this thread was supposed to be about Wisconsin?
In the Northeast, someone with a bachelors starts at 40K and maxes out at 57K after 12 years. Someone with a Masters starts at 44K and maxes out at 79K after 21 years, unless they work additional "semster hours" in which case they start at 49K and can get to 88K after 22 years.
Going by those median schedules, if average teacher pay in Chicago is 71K then you should probably be applauding the high retention, the extra hours put in, and the high education levels of Chicago teachers.
And if they're trying to push the schedules up then perhaps they want better reward for those traits?
Edit: I just realised this thread was supposed to be about Wisconsin?
Archbob
Ancient CFC Guardian
True, but forced unionization should not be required for any job since the Union doesn't actually employ you. Workers should be able to get a job and then choose whether or not to join or form a union. Half of the Union members basically quit the union after the bills were passed. Tell you how much those workers valued the union.
And Walker won because a lot of people were voting against the recall, not voting for him.
Archbob
Ancient CFC Guardian
Then shouldn't have to join and if they don't they shouldn't get the benefits of it.
Chicago is in the Midwest but probably has statistics that resemble the Northeast more so than other cities in the Midwest.
Illinois in general, and especially Chicago, have teacher salaries that are significantly higher than the averages for neighboring states. If teachersalaryinfo.com is to be believed, the Illinois average salary of $57k is considerably higher than neighboring Wisconsin's average ($49k), and all other states that border Illinois have lower salaries than Wisconsin.
Which is good - I think teacher salaries here in Illinois should be right about where they are. The problem is that the state has been going through a significant debt crisis (similar to California's) for quite a while now. So given that teacher pay is actually pretty decent by national standards, I think the state shouldn't increase their pay for now.
And yes, this thread is supposed to be about Wisconsin, which is much better off fiscally than Illinois anyway. I have no idea why Walker stripped away public bargaining rights there, other than to score cheap political points.
Northeast, Midwest.... I should probably be upfront and say that the distinctions you people draw between what I would consider "the parts of the country without coastline" kind of baffle me. c
edit: lakes, what are they?
edit: lakes, what are they?
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