Was it acceptable to ally with Uncle Joe in WWII?

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The UN, with a security counsel that had the CCCP as a permanent member... amazing it didn't call it an invasion, that...

Which they deferred to the General Assembly, who issued the statement I showed above.

Surprising that you don't get that the UNSC is dominated by anti-Soviet powers. USA, France, UK, and even China later, so a potential UNSC resolution is not going to be much proof of anything.

You're trying to limit the idea of an "invasion" to one that is actively against the current sitting power, only... so, in that sense, you would be right. I think that's too strict of a way to interpret the term...

Yeah because that's the blessed definition of it. Christ. Words aren't toys, they have meaning.

And pointing out you being a communist is just my way of saying, I see why you see it so bizarrely. You tend to side with the CCCP in about 90% of issues, so why would you not here? It's a bias, and it is fair to note it.

We don't talk about things in here that I might not side with the USSR on. Which, by the way, I didn't side with the USSR in this argument, I sided with facts. I also called their interventions in Czechoslovakia, Hungary, and Finland invasions, didn't I?

Your assertion that the USSR did not invade Afghanistan is honestly one I've never heard before in my life... and you're right, this debate is over, it was really over when you started insulting me above.

It never really started, since your answer is "yeah, but I'm still right" to any challenge to your own misconceptions.

"I've never heard that before" is a statement of ignorance on your own part, it is not an argument against me.
 
Oh God, Cheezy is right man, just admit it. THe government in power invited the Soviets in. Were they an unpopular government? Sure, but that doesn't change the fact that they were in power and did ask the Soviets into their country. Did the Soviets promptly kill their erstwhile inviter and take over the country? Sure, but that doesn't change the fact that before the Soviets whacked him for being too uppity, he invited them in the first place.
 
Ok, then let's count victims of slave trading too.
Still "hahahahaha", comrade?
Absolutely. Remember, most slaves died enroute to the New World, with numerous destinations and an international bunch selling them... so, we'd have to limit that to within the USA, which doesn't start when slaves in the New World starts, but in 1776.

How you rebutted it?
You disagree that the US was vastly richer?
Or you think it has nothing to do with people wanted to live there?
Explain please, "I rebutted it" won't work here :)
With other counter points... you acted like those were the only qualifiers, they weren't.

That's your problem, you are going to guess whereas I have first hand experience.
No, I am not guessing. I'm going with the 1st hand experience of many people I know personally, and have read about (that I don't know). My ex-wife, and her family, for one group... dozens of Russians in the USA that I know today, E. Europeans I met during my permanence in Europe... You're one of the only people I've ever heard say that it wasn't bad.

I'm saying that Soviet election took place before Gorby.
And that both were unfair, in USSR we were electing one out of two communists, you are electing one out of two capitalists.
I thought 1987 were the first elections in the USSR? I could be wrong.
As for the US system, lumping together everyone as capitalists in unrealistic.

It has something to do with Cold War, equally huge NATO army and something called "operation unthinkable", "plan dropshot" and "totality"
Hope you are not going to deny existence of British/American plans to attack USSR, because we were just discussing them here.
Oh, did NATO have anywhere near such a large military? Or the US by itself?
The US had plans of defending in Western Europe... but militaries plan for all contingencies... the USSR had plans of invading the west drawn out, didn't mean they were active plans. That's what militaries do...

When you need money to survive, you will find a way to save them.
Nukes and space flight both are defence-related technologies.
Well, I'm confused, was the USSR awesome or not?

There were two fatal incidents with cosmonauts, four people died.
Soviet and Russian manned spaceships are more reliable than American, if you want to hear this.
And less capable. When did you guys land on the moon?

I didn't say that.
It's not even in Russia.
It was in the CCCP, which is what we are discussing. I know it is in today's sovereign Ukraine.

You know, this may be new and interesting information for you, but our country as all the others had many different leaders, including oppressive and progressive.
But your words about "1000+ years of oppressive leaders..." characterize your level of education, not the quality of Russian leaders.
Have there been exceptions during 1000+ years, obviously. However, through most of that time, the Russians have experienced much more repressive governments than the west, in particular during that past 200 years.

I'm glad you've found a good propagandist buddy in Cheezy, btw, should help with you teaming up on me. Hopefully the insults will get more obvious from him, and you'll follow him in insulting me. That's fun, right, comrade?
 
Which they deferred to the General Assembly, who issued the statement I showed above.

Surprising that you don't get that the UNSC is dominated by anti-Soviet powers. USA, France, UK, and even China later, so a potential UNSC resolution is not going to be much proof of anything.



Yeah because that's the blessed definition of it. Christ. Words aren't toys, they have meaning.



We don't talk about things in here that I might not side with the USSR on. Which, by the way, I didn't side with the USSR in this argument, I sided with facts. I also called their interventions in Czechoslovakia, Hungary, and Finland invasions, didn't I?



It never really started, since your answer is "yeah, but I'm still right" to any challenge to your own misconceptions.

"I've never heard that before" is a statement of ignorance on your own part, it is not an argument against me.
The fundamental difference here, Cheezy, you are insisting that invasion can only be against the sitting government. I disagree.
You told me CCCP only had 2 invasions... now it is changing to 3... but still denying Afghanistan.

The fact is, we are defining invasion differently. For me, a massive military entrance, that is met with resistance, is an invasion... for you, it has to be against the sitting government (puppet that it was in this case).
 
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/1499983/Soviet-invasion-of-Afghanistan
Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, invasion of Afghanistan in late December 1979 by troops from the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union intervened in support of the Afghan communist government in its conflict with anticommunist Muslim guerrillas during the Afghan War (1978–92) and remained in Afghanistan until mid-February 1989.
Interventions, as this article makes clear, can include invasion.

Here are other google hits...
https://www.google.com/#hl=en&outpu...63c9d2be74365f&bpcl=35277026&biw=1280&bih=896

I guess they're all just completely wrong and Cheezy, you are right.
 
You tend to side with the CCCP in about 90% of issues, so why would you not here? It's a bias, and it is fair to note it.
Isn't it fair to note your bias, that you argue against USSR in about 100% of issues?

Absolutely. Remember, most slaves died enroute to the New World, with numerous destinations and an international bunch selling them... so, we'd have to limit that to within the USA, which doesn't start when slaves in the New World starts, but in 1776.
Sure. Your "body count" index, as measure of country's evilness now looks a little differently, right?
Don't forget that your land of freedom and beacon of democracy still had slavery at the time when backwards Russian Empire abolished serfdom.

With other counter points... you acted like those were the only qualifiers, they weren't.
I don't even know what you meant when you said "rebutted".
You told me that people wanted to live in USA rather than USSR.
I answered, it's because USA was many times richer and as a result, had better living standards.
What's wrong here?

No, I am not guessing. I'm going with the 1st hand experience of many people I know personally, and have read about (that I don't know). My ex-wife, and her family, for one group... dozens of Russians in the USA that I know today, E. Europeans I met during my permanence in Europe... You're one of the only people I've ever heard say that it wasn't bad.
I'll give you a hint. If I ask people who emigrated or run from country A to country B for whatever reason, what impression should I get about the life in country A? Now ask the same question, but people who remained in their country.

Oh, did NATO have anywhere near such a large military? Or the US by itself?
The US had plans of defending in Western Europe... but militaries plan for all contingencies... the USSR had plans of invading the west drawn out, didn't mean they were active plans. That's what militaries do...
Initially, USSR had larger conventional army, because it was all with what it could answer on nuclear attack.
America had plans of waging aggressive war against USSR, starting with nuclear bombing of largest Soviet cities.
Read about plans "Dropshot" and "Totality"

When did you guys land on the moon?
Who was the first man in space?

I'm glad you've found a good propagandist buddy in Cheezy, btw, should help with you teaming up on me. Hopefully the insults will get more obvious from him, and you'll follow him in insulting me. That's fun, right, comrade?
Then I'm gonna ask you to be more respectful to other people's opinion. It's you who started insults here, called people "apologists" and so on.
 
Isn't it fair to note your bias, that you argue against USSR in about 100% of issues?
It was, along with Hitler and Mao, in the top 3 tragedies of the 20th century. Should I be for it? Hahhahaha

Sure. Your "body count" index, as measure of country's evilness now looks a little differently, right?
Don't forget that your land of freedom and beacon of democracy still had slavery at the time when backwards Russian Empire abolished serfdom.
If you think the typical Russian wasn't a serf under the USSR, just with different masters, then I think you are wrong.

I'll give you a hint. If I ask people who emigrated or run from country A to country B for whatever reason, what impression should I get about the life in country A? Now ask the same question, but people who remained in their country.
Right, so, now let's compare numbers... How many Americans were trying to defect to the USSR?

Initially, USSR had larger conventional army, because it was all with what it could answer on nuclear attack.
And in 1985 what was the reason?

America had plans of waging aggressive war against USSR, starting with nuclear bombing of largest Soviet cities.
Read about plans "Dropshot" and "Totality"
Right, and the USSR had similar such plans... that's common in the military, you plan for all sorts of contingencies... that's what they do when they aren't at war, they plan for wars to be ready for them.
Do you honestly think the USA was going to invade the USSR?

Who was the first man in space?
A Russian. And you had space satellites first too. However, that was pretty much the tip... we kept going. Crimmeny, we've got private companies going into space in the west now.

Then I'm gonna ask you to be more respectful to other people's opinion. It's you who started insults here, called people "apologists" and so on.
Apologist isn't an insult. Please don't take it that way, comrade. It is a common term meaning someone who sides with a position and defends it. I'm an apologist on many topics myself.
 
It was, along with Hitler and Mao, in the top 3 tragedies of the 20th century. Should I be for it? Hahhahaha
That's just your biased point of view.

If you think the typical Russian wasn't a serf under the USSR, just with different masters, then I think you are wrong.
A serf with free housing, free superb university education, free healthcare, month of vacation, guaranteed work and cheap food?
Right :)
Looks like you don't know what the word serf mean.

Right, so, now let's compare numbers... How many Americans were trying to defect to the USSR?
Ok, let's get back.
How many times the US was richer?

And in 1985 what was the reason?
And in 1985 it was not that big.
Just enough to guarantee quick capture of Europe, in case if Soviet mainland was attacked with nuclear weapons.

Right, and the USSR had similar such plans...
Name me one.
The USSR was simply in no position to attack the US.
You know the reasons.

Do you honestly think the USA was going to invade the USSR?
Yes.
We were discussing this in this thread, for Christ sake... Many people agreed that the attack in 1945 would be not only feasible, but desirable. Not for Soviet people, of course.
The only thing which prevented it, was the size and potential of Soviet army in 1940-s, and quick development of nukes and means of their delivery later.
After 1945 and until mid 1950-s, the danger was even higher, with US having nuclear monopoly and ability to deploy large forces in Europe.
 
A Russian. And you had space satellites first too. However, that was pretty much the tip... we kept going. Crimmeny, we've got private companies going into space in the west now.
Call me when they'll reach the Soyuz's level of reliability and cost-effectiveness.
Free market regulation doesn't work here yet.

kochman said:
Well, I'm confused, was the USSR awesome or not?
It was different.
The ideology and the idea of society was probably too advanced for Russian Empire and our people.
There were many amazing things, achievements which our grandfathers had done.
They built great country for us, which we, Soviet people and leaders, pissed away in 1980s.
 
If you think the typical Russian wasn't a serf under the USSR, just with different masters, then I think you are wrong.

I don't think you know what that word means.
 
That's just your biased point of view.
Yes, the 3 most murderous regimes in the 20th century are, from my biased point of view, bad news.

A serf with free housing, free superb university education, free healthcare, month of vacation, guaranteed work and cheap food?
Right :)
Looks like you don't know what the word serf mean.
Obviously, an analogy. Slaves can be used in a metaphorical sense too.

Ok, let's get back.
How many times the US was richer?
In 1917? Not much, I would imagine. Maybe our system had something to do with it, and yours had something to do with it.

And in 1985 it was not that big.
Just enough to guarantee quick capture of Europe, in case if Soviet mainland was attacked with nuclear weapons.
It was HUGE. My father worked in the Pentagon, in the Sec of the Army's Office. I saw the rough number and even as a kid was amazed at the difference.

Name me one.
The USSR was simply in no position to attack the US.
You know the reasons.
You honestly don't think that the USSR had drawn up plans to attack the US, however far fetched they were?
And you honestly think the USA was seriously going to invade the USSR?

Yes.
We were discussing this in this thread, for Christ sake... Many people agreed that the attack in 1945 would be not only feasible, but desirable. Not for Soviet people, of course.
The only thing which prevented it, was the size and potential of Soviet army in 1940-s, and quick development of nukes and means of their delivery later.
After 1945 and until mid 1950-s, the danger was even higher, with US having nuclear monopoly and ability to deploy large forces in Europe.
Wow, you do think the USA was going to invade the USSR... Amazing.
 
In 1917? Not much, I would imagine. Maybe our system had something to do with it, and yours had something to do with it.

Are you joking? In 1917 the US was among the great industrialized powers of the world and entirely untouched by World War I. You're trying to make a very complicated situation extremely simplistic. The Tsarist Russian structures including the zemstovo, landed gentry and their privileges and peasant communes meant that Russia lagged behind industrial development.
Agriculture constituted 43% of Russian national wealth and 80% of the labor force. Even after Witte and Stolypin's reforms only 2/3 of the peasantry decided to take individual titles and of those only 1/3 filed for separation from the commune and 10% set up consolidate farms. Furthermore only 9% of all agricultural land in Russia was consolidated and 1/4 of the peasants left the commune to set up homesteads. When World War I broke out in 1914 still only 24% of the peasant population had taken advantage of the laws. Russia still had fewer railroads than Germany when the war broke out and production was concentrated in large factories in certain cities which were heavily impacted by strikes and work stoppages.

By 1917 workers unrest was at a high and the Germans occupied a significant amount of land, the loss of the Ukraine in particular was detrimental. By the time the Bolsheviks won the Civil War and established themselves in power industrial production and agricultural production had fallen below Tsarist Russian levels due to the destruction and social and economic dislocation.
 
We were discussing this in this thread, for Christ sake... Many people agreed that the attack in 1945 would be not only feasible, but desirable. Not for Soviet people, of course.
The only thing which prevented it, was the size and potential of Soviet army in 1940-s, and quick development of nukes and means of their delivery later.
After 1945 and until mid 1950-s, the danger was even higher, with US having nuclear monopoly and ability to deploy large forces in Europe.
We also discussed how it was a British initiative, not an American one, and very few Americans were even remotely interested in the concept. And we also also discussed how even the British, led by notorious warmonger and ideological lunatic Winston Churchill, quickly put their offensive war plans on the backburner and focused on an initial defensive on the assumption that it would be the Red Army, not the western Allies, who would initiate that war.

The few people who have seriously proposed offensive war against the USSR in this thread are either misinformed or uninformed, and usually ideologically blinkered into the bargain. I, personally, have little doubt that the Allies would have been able to sustain continuous operations against the Soviet Union from spring 1945 had the Red Army been the group to initiate those operations, and I am relatively certain that those operations would have ended with the failure of any Soviet offensive. But that is a vastly different proposition than keeping the attack going and marching on to Warsaw, Minsk, Kiev, Moscow, and beyond.

After 1945, the United States' capacity to deploy large forces in Europe was purely theoretical. The Army was forced to make massive cuts across the board, weaken its institutional preparedness for war with some absolutely necessary reforms and many completely stupid and unnecessary reforms, and ultimately was not even prepared for the Korean war when it broke out. That war did a great deal to alter the American political establishment and the American military establishment's approach to conventional fighting in the Cold War, but those improvements certainly cannot be dated until after 1950.

Due to the actual respective forces deployed in Europe alone, a conventional offensive by the western Allies and what would eventually become NATO from the 1940s to the 1980s (and probably through the 1980s as well) would have been prima facie absurd, and this was common knowledge at the time in the West. If the leaders of the Red Army thought otherwise, they either possessed one of the worst intelligence networks in the history of the world or were incredibly self-deluded. Ideological nattering about World Revolution or the Fate of the Free World aside, any American planning for a conventional offensive into Eastern Europe was purely theoretical, the sort of plan that gets stuffed in a pigeonhole shortly after it is made and rapidly forgotten. Given the enormous stress that Soviet doctrine placed on the offensive at all levels of warfare - tactical, operational, strategic, grand-strategic - it is extremely difficult for me to seriously believe that the Red Army did not know this.
 
We also discussed how it was a British initiative, not an American one, and very few Americans were even remotely interested in the concept. And we also also discussed how even the British, led by notorious warmonger and ideological lunatic Winston Churchill, quickly put their offensive war plans on the backburner and focused on an initial defensive on the assumption that it would be the Red Army, not the western Allies, who would initiate that war.
What was the primary reason to abandone those plans, according to existing documents?
If I remember correctly, it was huge Soviet military advantage over Allied forces in Europe.
Nothing else was preventing notorious warmonger and ideological lunatic from putting those plans in action.
What do you think, was it reasonable for USSR to keep large conventional army back then, or it should have disarmed?

After 1945, the United States' capacity to deploy large forces in Europe was purely theoretical. The Army was forced to make massive cuts across the board, weaken its institutional preparedness for war with some absolutely necessary reforms and many completely stupid and unnecessary reforms, and ultimately was not even prepared for the Korean war when it broke out. That war did a great deal to alter the American political establishment and the American military establishment's approach to conventional fighting in the Cold War, but those improvements certainly cannot be dated until after 1950.
I understand that the USA had neither desire nor much ability to achieve conventional parity with USSR in Europe.
Now put into the equation two factors:
1. Forces of another NATO members in Europe. France, Britain, West Germany.
2. USA's nuclear monopoly. First strike with 20-30 atomic bombs, decimating Soviet industrial and military potential, killing tens of millions.

People are asking why the USSR kept large army - here are the answers.

Due to the actual respective forces deployed in Europe alone, a conventional offensive by the western Allies and what would eventually become NATO from the 1940s to the 1980s (and probably through the 1980s as well) would have been prima facie absurd, and this was common knowledge at the time in the West.
Absolutely agree. Purely conventional attack from NATO side would be suicidal. The thing is that neither of two sides considered such scenario, both USSR and USA were confident that large scale conflict would quickly escalate to using tactical and then most likely, strategical nuclear weapons.

It would be interesting to hear your opinion on the question why the Soviet analysts made such decision, to continue keeping large army and achieving nuclear parity with the USA. Was it just paranoia?
 
Yes, the 3 most murderous regimes in the 20th century are, from my biased point of view, bad news.
Why bad news? It's good news, you agreed that you are biased.

Obviously, an analogy. Slaves can be used in a metaphorical sense too.
That's what you did :)
But I wasn't talking in metaphorical sense - your land of freedom and beacon of democracy had slavery in literal sense, by the time when Russia abolished serfdom.

It was HUGE. My father worked in the Pentagon, in the Sec of the Army's Office. I saw the rough number and even as a kid was amazed at the difference.
It was bigger, just enough to quickly destroy any NATO opposition in Europe, in the event of major war with using tactical nukes.
USSR had no ability to invade USA's mainland, but it could crush NATO members in Europe and capture their industrial potential.

You honestly don't think that the USSR had drawn up plans to attack the US, however far fetched they were?
USSR had no technical ability to invade the USA. If it had any of such plans, they were in the same folder and in the same category with plans of Mars invasion.
And you forgot to name me one of those plans.

Wow, you do think the USA was going to invade the USSR... Amazing.
Yes, I think the invasion was possible. Bad news, as you put it :)
The Soviet defense measures successfully prevented it, by ensuring that the US will receive unacceptable damage, in the event of invasion.

In 1917? Not much, I would imagine.
Oh right. When Russia was losing WW1, empire collapsed and was on a brink of Civil War which took another several millions of victims.
Your ability to imagine things is truly impressive.
 
How do you think...

Yep, your first language is Russian. :)

Spoiler :
как по твое-му: это то, что вы пытались сказать, исправить, товарищ?
 
Yep, your first language is Russian. :)

Spoiler :
как по твое-му: это то, что вы пытались сказать, исправить, товарищ?
Oops, my bad :)
Spoiler :
Usual form in Russian "Как ты думаешь?", literally "How do you think?"
But "Как по-твоему" is also ok.
 
The USSR "intervened" well more than twice, my friend. Angola,

That was a colonial war on independence. Estado Novo deserved to be overthrown. If the USA was on the right side of history, it would not have opposed the dismantling of Salazar's Fascist empire.

The history of the US's involvement with that regime is a very nice example of how international politics has little or nothing to do with ideology. And how the US governments always cared first and foremost for US strategic interests. Though they very often had severe disagreements about what those were!

First the background: in 1957 Salazar made sure that the Cabinda oil prospection concession was granted to Gulf Oil: it was a way of buying american support (though oil would only start to be explored in 1967). The cotton farming had long been controlled by belgian and british interests to which the west germans had joined in the 50s, the diamonds were shared with DeBeers, and the iron ore of Cassinga was granted to Krupp and Bethlem Steel. But while other european colonial powers moved on to neocolonialism his government tried to hold on to the colonies, depended on the myth of "colonial greatness" to continue to exist. Then in 1960 began the Congo Crisis: the belgians decided to cut and run, with the condition of preserving their mining interests there... though things eventually became much messier....

Anyway, by 1961 the americans had figured that if faced with serious unrest Portugal would probably do the same as the belgians and so the US had better put forward its own man to head the new state. Holden Roberto, the leader of a tribal movement (later known as UPA, and later as FNLA) which originally aimed at reconstructing the old kingdom of Congo (with him as king-to-be in the course of time) had been an asset of the "American Committee on Africa" (CIA front for Africa; the "Fellowship of Reconciliation" with its african missionaires was another organization useful to the CIA at the time, despite its "pacifist" claims) since the mid 50s, and had been pestering the State Department since (at least) December 1960 for support. The US placed Roberto on the CIA's (Leopoldville branch) pay sheet and offered his organization money and some weapons (the US was most likely also behind Israel's offer of military training to members of Roberto's group, who were in Israel in early 1962). At the same time on March 6th 1961 ambassador Elbrick conspired with the portuguese defense minister, general Botelho Moniz, asking him to lead a coup to remove Salazar and grant independence to Angola under a mutually agreed (Portugal and US) government. The US would offer to Portugal a "development package" of $70 million in exchange. The next day the american embassy officially informed the portuguese defense ministry that the US expected events "similar to or worse that those of Congo" to happen in the north of Angola very soon. That indeed happened on March 15th, when UPA carried out a series of massacres targeting white settlers and their black migrant employees, causing some 8000 dead in a couple of days. There is little doubt that the US expected this little terrorist campaign against its own NATO ally to lead to a quick retreat of the colonial administration and independence of Angola with power falling into the lap of Washington's man, Holden Roberto. The "angolan crisis" offered the perfect excuse for Botelho Moniz to get rid of Salazar. The problem was... Moniz was too confident to act in time. He spent nearly one month conspiring with other generals and trying to arrange a constitutional replacement of Salazar (thus maintaining the dictatorial regime in Portugal as it was). Salazar in the meanwhile used the images of the massacres to whip up nationalist feelings, declared that Angola's future was not negotiable, and finally dismissed Moniz and the other conspiring generals and had some loyal military units detain the whole lot as they finally attempted a failed coup.

American concern with getting Angola to become independent under a friendly government continued until 1964, predicated on the analysis that Portugal could not beat the guerrillas and the longer the war dragged on the more radical and pro-communist those would become. Basically the position of the US was always to position itself in alliance with, and favor, the predicted winner, since it was politically impossible for the US itself to exercise power directly on (invade) Africa. There was nothing ideological on the Kennedy Administration's anti-colonial stances, it was cold realistic strategy, as set out in Paul Sakwa's 1962 report on US policy toward Portugal. (see "Kennedy's Quest for Victory: American Foreign Policy, 1961-1963" by Thomas Paterson, or "The destruction of a nation" by Geroge Wright). The same reasoning was behind the initial US support to FRELIMO in Mozambique, where Eduardo Mondlane was, in 1963, also financed by the CIA as he consolidated his control over the guerrilla against Portugal.

Then... the US got involved in Vietnam. And predicting defeat by guerrillas became something you don't do inside the american bureaucracy. The US realigned its polity towards giving discrete support to the portuguese military efforts in its colonial wars, while at the same time pretending to remain anti-colonialist. In 1965 the US government was already violating its own weapons embargo on the portuguese colonial war by setting up a scheme to sell Douglas A-26 planes to Portugal through a CIA company, Intermountain Aviation. And providing training to hundreds of portuguese military in Panamá. But the US kept playing on both sides of the board: support to Roberto's FNLA was maintained, and a J. Makoon, aka John Marcum (Lincoln University, and certainly with other jobs inside the US services) tried (and failed) to set up a channel with MPLA in 1967. He remained a regular contact of FRELIMO. Also in FRELIMO there was among its leaders a Leo Millas, aka Leo Clinton Aldridge Jr, an american whom portuguese intelligence eventually identified as a CIA asset attached to the Dar-es-Salaam US embassy, who passed himself off as Mozambican during 1963-64 until Mondlane was forced to drop him after his cover was blown...

I really could go on about american duplicity in Angola and Mozambique, before and after its independence, but this is getting too long already.
 
Why bad news? It's good news, you agreed that you are biased.
Never denied it. I'll go ahead and think that being more for the USA than the USSR isn't a bad thing.

That's what you did :)
But I wasn't talking in metaphorical sense - your land of freedom and beacon of democracy had slavery in literal sense, by the time when Russia abolished serfdom.
By the time the USSR was an entity, slavery was gone in the USA.

It was bigger, just enough to quickly destroy any NATO opposition in Europe, in the event of major war with using tactical nukes.
USSR had no ability to invade USA's mainland, but it could crush NATO members in Europe and capture their industrial potential.
Massively bigger, though much poorer trained.

USSR had no technical ability to invade the USA. If it had any of such plans, they were in the same folder and in the same category with plans of Mars invasion.
And you forgot to name me one of those plans.
They had plans to attack in Europe.

Yes, I think the invasion was possible. Bad news, as you put it :)
The Soviet defense measures successfully prevented it, by ensuring that the US will receive unacceptable damage, in the event of invasion.
Well, you're entitled to your position. I can assure you, the USA was not on the verge of initiating a ground invasion of the USSR.
 
And, you didn't answer my question.
Which do you think has had a more positive impact on the world... The CCCP or the USA?

... the CCCP/USSR. Though they also conducted their foreign policy according to strategic interests they were far more generous in the "let's give help to other countries" department, for ideological reasons. I don't think they'd have even invaded Hungary if they weren't scared of seeing the Warsaw Pact collapse if they did nothing. But that single decision damned them and may have cost them the ultimate defeat in the Cold War.

The CCCP intervened military, despite whatever you say, in Afghanistan... It also took by force the Baltic States in that sweet little deal Uncle Joe made with Addy at the start of WW2.

I,m going to actually agree with you here about Afghanistan: it was a dubious military intervention arranged though a soviet coup inside Afghanistan and, if not formally an invasion, at least an occupation. Sorry Cheezy, but I'm big on this respect other states' sovereignty thing and the USSR had been messing with the Afghan government too much.
But kochman, you really shouldn't be bringing up WW2-related events to any comparison. Unless you want to argue about how the "democratic" fate if Italy, for example, was fixed, or about Greece, or a number of other WW2 outcomes.

Why did the Eastern Bloc have to revolt to throw off the Soviet yoke?

It didn't, really. The USSR was on the way out. That was the most singular thing about the USSR: the tenebrous "totalitarian" regime that had been reviled by Arendt... dissolved itself! So much for totalitarianism, if they still had the freedom of thought to imagine and to do such a thing. The USSR's defeat was, in that way, a negation of much of the propaganda made against it for meany years. It was a dictatorship, yes. But it was not a totalitarian dictatorship. It was also not a colonial power. It did not "exploit" eastern europe, unless you want to consider WW2 reparations as exploitation.

They had plans to attack in Europe.

And the US has plans to invade Canada. So?

My impression of the Cold War events is that the US' was consistently the most bellicose side. Or at least certainly managed to seem so!

After 1945, the United States' capacity to deploy large forces in Europe was purely theoretical. The Army was forced to make massive cuts across the board, weaken its institutional preparedness for war with some absolutely necessary reforms and many completely stupid and unnecessary reforms, and ultimately was not even prepared for the Korean war when it broke out.

Oh, an interesting piece of information at last! What were the stupid and unnecessary reforms? I'm aware that a cut was necessary, for several reasons, including general war weariness (the reason why I regarded operation unthinkable as impossible to start by the western allies), but can you explain briefly what happened in the immediate post-war with the american army?
 
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