Was Mohammed a paedophile/marital rapist?

Please read the OP

  • a) Yes

    Votes: 48 60.8%
  • a) No

    Votes: 15 19.0%
  • b) Yes

    Votes: 38 48.1%
  • b) No

    Votes: 21 26.6%
  • c) Yes

    Votes: 22 27.8%
  • c) No

    Votes: 32 40.5%
  • Giant Radioactive Code of Sexual Behaviour!!

    Votes: 25 31.6%

  • Total voters
    79
The real question, was Jesus married and if not was he by the standards of his time or today considered to be homosexual?

He spend awful lot of time with men and of course with some women too so maybe he was bi-sexual?

Now, is this trolling or am I just playing devil's advocate?

The motive of this post and this thread is suspicious one. Since the questions don't lead into any other conclusion but that the morals change over time.

Naw, you need to get more specific:
Did Jesus really trash a money-market, and was it acceptable for Him to do so? If it was, is it an acceptable model for Christians?
Did Jesus really cause demons to destroy 2000 (?) pigs, and was it acceptable for Him to destroy someone else's property? If so, is this an acceptable model for Christians?

Now, I find it offensive when people say that "righteous violence" is acceptable serving of Jesus. But it's much more offensive to say that bedding a nine year old is acceptable in a modern setting.
 
The real question, was Jesus married and if not was he by the standards of his time or today considered to be homosexual?

He spend awful lot of time with men and of course with some women too so maybe he was bi-sexual?

Now, is this trolling or am I just playing devil's advocate?

The motive of this post and this thread is suspicious one. Since the questions don't lead into any other conclusion but that the morals change over time and the sources are so-so reliable.

There is certainly a theme in all religions that say that the text is uncontestable. The Koran the Torah and The New testament are all subject to this rather tortuous logic of absolute correctness,at least under the fundementalist exponenets of the faith; frankly though I don't buy it; the only books in history to never have been changed manipulated,misrepresented or poorly remembered, when written a deal of time after the supposed authors deaths? Seems unlikely, and although many theologians have contested doctrines throughout history and thereby decided or rejected what was recognisably correct, not one of them was ever subject to human error, not one of them was falsely representing stories knowingly or otherwise, even those handed down by word of mouth? I think that's stretching credability personally.

For example the oldest texts(verified by dating) Recorded about Christianity: The Gospel of the Twelve has pretty much the same messages as those in the New testament, written in the language of Christ it is considered to be unreliable: why? So satan travelled back in time to record things that we're later recorded in the New testament, but it is not a credible source? This is not logical.

Again the Sheites don't recognise most of the hadiths and claim it was rife with corruption by the Caliphs, what is credible here? And who decides?

Religion is based on alot of interpritation, to believe that all interpritation is correct because a group of people x thousand years ago say it is so is pretty far fretched. I believe most texts are correct or hold most of the truth, but as to holding all of it? I find it unlikely. And frankly so have many theologians and historians, some of which were killed for saying so.

It took nearly a hundred years for the Nicene council to decide on a version of the Christian faith and it really could have gone either way with many beliefs, of course the easy answer is that the right text was chosen by men who had a direct link with God, Allah or Yehewa, it's an easy answer but I don't buy that either.

Was Muhammed a paedophile: maybe, was he unusual for a Muslim of the times: no, did such marriages happen outside of mohammeds household? yep. Whilst we find it reprehensible in a modern context, it all comes to down historical context. Doesn't make it right, no, but it's hard to judge the morality of the times based on the morality of our times.

And Besides Aneeshm, there's an odd belief followed by some that sleeping with virgins will cure you of AIDS in India, child prostitution is not unusual, your culture is hardly one to judge the past so unequivocally anyway.
 
In any case it is not a good idea to be bothered with the sayings of either a muslim of the 8th century, or a jew of the first century. Both were not scientific in any way.
Besides, there had been many more masive religions, which got replaced, most often quite violently as well. Zoroastrism or fractions in byzantine christianity could have had lived on, if things were a bit different. On the other hand catholicism or protestantism could never have had existed, and yet for aeons people were very interested in them as well.

There is no way that one can completely destroy the credibility of a text, nomatter what the text is made of. Take for example something like the Apocalypse. It is mentioned in it that near the end there will be a plague of 200 million beast-horsemen (riding some sort of giant insect iirc). At the time such an army would obviously be lethal. Nowdays a small nuclear bomb, or at most a few more, would destroy it. But it doesnt matter that they were 200 million, nor that they were riding beast-like horses, since people can always see the text as allegoric. But any sort of pitiful text can be seen as something monumental, by private standards, if only its reader is willing to grant it such a state.
On the contrary obviously the jews of Jesus's time would not even recognise mathematical equations already known to the western med people.
 
To start, let me say that this thread is pointless. I didn't need to know any of this to despise Muhammed any more than I already do.

Pray tell, why do you? Seems like a waste of energy.

Anyway, this thread is quite pointless. If I bring up mary magdelene giving Jesus some action, y'all would be in a fit.
 
Yes to all. Though I don't care about Muhammed ;).

(Except for a few Muhammed parodies in YTMND ;))
 
Honestly, I would not be surprised if Mohammed was a paedophile/marital rapist or what not. However, I do not really care either.
 
Mohammad was a hypocrite on sex. Yes, usually I do defend Islam here especially the ridiculous stuff people pander about the Koran telling Muslims to go and slay all non-believers (ever heard of context guys?). However, on the part of sex and his marriages he was a complete hypocrite:

(Chapter 33)

You (Muhammad) said to the man (Zayd, Muhammad's adopted son) whom God and yourself have favoured: 'Keep your wife and have fear of God.' You sought to hide in your heart what God was to reveal (your intention to marry Zayd's wife). You were afraid of man, although it would have been more proper to fear God. And when Zayd divorced his wife, We gave her to you in marriage, so that it should become legitimate for true believers to wed the wives of their adopted sons if they divorced them. God's will must needs be done.

No blame shall be attached to the Prophet for doing what is sanctioned for him by God. Such was the way of God with those who went before him (God's decrees are preordained); who fulfilled the mission with which God had charged them, fearing God and fearing none besides Him. Sufficient is God's reckoning.

Muhammad is the father of no man among you (Muhammad left no male heirs). He is the Apostle of God and the Seal of the Prophets. Surely God has knowledge of all things.

Prophet, We have made lawful for you the wives to whom you have granted dowries and the slave-girls whom God has given you as booty; the daughters of your paternal and maternal uncles and of your paternal and maternal aunts who fled with you; and any believing woman who gives herself to the Prophet and whom the Prophet wishes to take in marriage. This privilege is yours alone, being granted to no other believer.

We well know the duties We have imposed on the faithful concerning their wives and slave-girls [We grant you this privilege] so that none may blame you. God is ever forgiving and merciful.

You may put off any of your wives you please and take to your bed any of them you please. Nor is it unlawful for you to receive any of those whom you have temporarily set aside. That is more proper, so that they may be contented and not vexed, and may all be pleased with what you give them.

God knows what is in your (the believers) hearts. Surely God is all-knowing and gracious.

It shall be unlawful for you (Muhammad) to take more wives or to change your present wives for other women, although their beauty please you, unless they are slave-girls whom you own. God takes cognizance of all things.

Basically Mohammad explains it all away by basically saying, hey I'm the Prophet, I don't have to follow the same rules as everyone else on marriage and sex. I'm special. God told me this in a dream so yeah, it's all fine. By the way by having to say this he is implicitly acknowledging that he broke his own damn rules and this is a bit of fast talking to try to maintain the "perfect Prophet" image from the consequences of his lust.

Oh yeah, and there are all these rules about how followers should show the *proper* respect for the Prophet. Chapter 33 is near the back of the book (the number of chapters is misleading because the Koran is ordered from the largest chapters to the smallest, the smallest being only a few lines).

When thinking about Iraq I always derive great amusement by reading these lines from the Koran:

Do not divide your religion into sects, each exulting in its own doctrines.

Though to the OP, my opinion on traditional Hindu treatment of women ain't much greater than my opinion on traditional Islamic treatment of women. And no I don't give a damn about what any book says. What matters is how it worked out in reality.
 
Maybe he was, who cares? Theres never been a founder of a worldwide religious movement who could actually live up to his hype. We're all imperfect, or sinners, depending on how you look at it. The sort of charismatic power hungry person who starts a new religion is probably even more flawed than all the rest of us. Its to be expected, and shouldnt prevent anyone from making the most of their religion, whether or not its founder was a complete ass, or a perfect, wonderful person. The message is what counts, not the messenger.
So, do as I say, not as I do, eh?

So if you father beats you but gives good advice you should idolize him?

Sounds like a load of crap to me. The people with the most "holy" and unrealistic ideals oft-times are the most despicable.

That's why I liked the Buddah, he led a very human life and didn't try to castigate everyone else (as being a dirty sinner). He just said, hey, this is what I've learned from my own experience, if you want to achieve the state I'm in you might want to try them. What I also like about "the Buddah" is that he specificly says not to take his word for it, to put his ideas into practice in your life and see if they work.

Anyway, it isn't irrelivant because people are willing to kill and die defending this dead fellow. Maybe if they realize he was a sicko they'd find a better role model eventually.
 
Bozo Erectus said:
Id ask you this though: why is it so important to us that our religious leaders be perfect, flawless individuals?
There's a big difference between flawed and human and being a child-f***ing, murderer & rapist.

MobBoss said:
Ah...well, I for one tend to think if the person in question from 1 or 2 thousand years ago is still influencing the world today via their legacy its not idiocy or trolling to discuss them.
I agree.

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Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
 
So, do as I say, not as I do, eh?
Thats usually a good idea.

So if you father beats you but gives good advice you should idolize him?
No, my father beat me, but he also taught me not to stand outside in the rain looking up with my mouth open, because Id drown. One has nothing to do with the other. BTW, Im not trying to make the case that people should be loyal apostles to their spiritual masters no matter they do. What I started out trying to say is that I dont know why we're alwyas shocked when it turns out leader X is human after all.

The people with the most "holy" and unrealistic ideals oft-times are the most despicable.
I never thought of you as despicable;)
There's a big difference between flawed and human and being a child-f***ing, murderer & rapist.
:lol:Let me put it to you this way: Lets say you go to a seminar about eating raw foods, being a Vegan or whatever its called. The speaker is very knowledgeable, enthusiastic and you learn alot from him. You think he's great so after, you go backstage to thank him and you see him wearing diapers and being spanked by a midget dominitrix. Or you overhear him on the phone threatening an old lady with eviction if she doesnt come across with the rent. Or you read in the newspaper the next day that he's a child molesting murderer and rapist. Are you going to quite eating raw food and go buy some steaks?
 
I see where you're coming from.

But don't you think a "holy person" should be held to a higher standard?
 
Muhammad would rot in prison, should he lived today. He was a war criminal, child-rapist and cheater. The greatest tragedy is that more than one billion of people believe, that he is the example worth following. No wonder Muslims do what they do today.
 
Muhammad would rot in prison, should he lived today. He was a war criminal, child-rapist and cheater. The greatest tragedy is that more than one billion of people believe, that he is the example worth following. No wonder Muslims do what they do today.

Yet his followers made Spain the most litterate, advanced, tolerant and richest country in Europe in the Middle Ages, when people in today's Czeck republic were burning Jews ;)
 
Yeah, I remember when I was reading about Mohamed, I saw this, and was like "what the hell?!" Yeah, I think him marrying a 9-year-old was bad, so it kind of tarnishes my view of him.
 
Yes / Yes / ?

Muhammed was a paedophile in modern standars, if we believe that Koran is true.
 
Yeah, I remember when I was reading about Mohamed, I saw this, and was like "what the hell?!" Yeah, I think him marrying a 9-year-old was bad, so it kind of tarnishes my view of him.

That's because in your culture, it's bad. In his culture at the time, that was probably acceptable. If anyone wants to say it isn't, documents would be nice.
 
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