Was Mohammed a paedophile/marital rapist?

Please read the OP

  • a) Yes

    Votes: 48 60.8%
  • a) No

    Votes: 15 19.0%
  • b) Yes

    Votes: 38 48.1%
  • b) No

    Votes: 21 26.6%
  • c) Yes

    Votes: 22 27.8%
  • c) No

    Votes: 32 40.5%
  • Giant Radioactive Code of Sexual Behaviour!!

    Votes: 25 31.6%

  • Total voters
    79
What if somebody produced some ancient texts purportedly proving that the man who would become known as the Buddha was actually a deeply flawed human being? I would say about him the same that I said about Mohammed. To me all of that is completely irrelevant. I begin with the assumption that all human beings are flawed, some more than others, or differently flawed, but all of us: flawed. What interests me most about a person, in this religion founding context, is their attempt to rise above their flaws, and the glimpses of Truth they perceive and pass on to the rest of us. You can be a Moses, looking at a promised land, and yet not be able to enter it. The vision is what counts.

That's the beauty of it.The flaws of the pre-Enlightenment (which are yet to be found, by the way) stage cannot be used against him, because of the nature of the doctrine he preaches, and in the post-Enlightenment stage, no flaws remained.
 
What I posted is factually correct aneeshm.

Your earlier comment is intellectual dishonesty and laziness at worst, and being economical with the truth at best, as you've shown us many times on here.
You mean ~ Derail your mission to show Muslims to be inhumane and Hindus holier than thou? How convenient your dictating of how the thread should develop is.

I thought whether it would be better to continue this over PMs, but I thought it better to duke it out in an open forum - all the better to pwn you publicly;).

As usual, you barge in with the half-assed misrepresentations of my actual position. I asked a question regarding the founder of a religion. How does that equate to me being on a mission to show the adherents of that religion inhumane? It doesn't, but your worldview doesn't allow for anyone who can criticise a religion without hating it or its followers, does it?

And considering that I started this thread, I damn well have a right to dictate its flow!

I respond: That is what is written. What people do is another matter entirely.

And that is relevant how?

Hindu tradition often sees children being married well before puberty. In the time of Muhammad it happened. Today it happens, especially in rural parts. Your focussing on the text books alone is quite convenient and also misses the point, which happens more often than not in the cases of all religions, that people totally twist their holy texts in favour of a way they wish to lead their lives and shape their traditions.

That's not Hindu tradition, actually. That's a perverse tradition, originating in the Muslim period.

When the Muslims invaded India, they had the bad habit of raping unmarried girls. When they became established in India, Muslim aristocrats used to simply pick up any Hindu girl they liked and keep her as a concubine. They had the protection of the state, and the Hindus had no means of getting justice. Even the Muslims aristocracy of that time, however, wouldn't pick up married girls (at least without killing their husbands first, as Mohammed did).

To prevent this from happening, people married off their girls earlier and earlier, so that the invaders wouldn't rape them.

In case you want sources: Google Link.

In hindsight, you wish you hadn't brought up this topic, don't you:lol:?

Judging a religion from some dusty tome is hardly an honest or inclusive way to evaluate it. It is how it is practised also that counts. Hindus fair just as poorly as Muslims in this regard.

WRONG. Whims of the moment are but passing. Fundamentals remain. And that's the only way to judge religion fairly.

Of course, the problem arises - how to judge Hinduism? It does not bind itself to any books, so any such comparison is meaningless. It depends not on any single prophet, so it cannot be judged on that ground. Hindu society is ever-evolving, based on the vision of its holy men, so you cannot select a period of time and say, "That was Hinduism". Books of law can be re-written, so going even by them is meaningless. Till date, I haven't found a satisfactory method of judging my own religion.

Yeah, and Hindus are supposed to follow the Arthashastra. But do they???

Wrong again. We are compelled to follow nothing except the dictates of our own conscience. We can, if we so want, re-write the lawbooks, and nobody will challenge our right to do so. Can a Muslim boast of the same freedom?


If there ever exists a double standard, it is this one. Absolutely magnificent.

When someone says that Islam is violent because of the actions of its adherents, people tell us to look at the texts. When we look at them, we find the same violence in them. So it is attributed to misinterpretation by fundamentalists. So we check up as to what the interpretation was throughout history. When that is also found to be violent, these people tell us that we should not go by the texts, but by what the majority of adherents does - describing a complete full circle!

And now that we want to attack Hinduism, you point out that uneducated Hindus do bad things. It is pointed out that the books do not sanction it. But no! Let's not judge by books, because what a minority of followers do is enough to condemn the religion, the actual religion be damned!

Hindus: bad because they don't follow their texts!
Muslims: good because they don't follow their texts!
 
To start, let me say that this thread is pointless. I didn't need to know any of this to despise Muhammed any more than I already do.
 
That's the beauty of it.The flaws of the pre-Enlightenment (which are yet to be found, by the way) stage cannot be used against him, because of the nature of the doctrine he preaches, and in the post-Enlightenment stage, no flaws remained.
Whether or not he still was flawed after his Enlightenment is a matter of faith, and I dont see any point in arguing about it. Im a 'fan' of Buddhisim, but Im not a Buddhist. IMO thats best left for Buddhists to decide for themselves.

Id ask you this though: why is it so important to us that our religious leaders be perfect, flawless individuals? Arent we just setting ourselves up for disappointment and disillusionment?
 
I voted no a bit too fast, I think. I believe this can not be judged outside of the standards of 800 AD Arabia, but your poll refers to modern time standards.
 
There is alot of evidence that she was actually in her late teens when the marriage occurred (which can be seen on or via the above wiki page).

To be honest I think the whole issue is redundant, as the modern image of Muhammed is not that of a pedophile, and his image is all that truly matters nowadays.

I think that this is an excellent point; both of them.

There are actually two issues here:
- did Muhammed rape a nine year old, factually?
- do Muslims think that he had sex with a nine year old, and it is acceptable?

This is similar to the Creation issue:
- did Allah create the world in a week, factually?
- do Muslims think that He did?

In both cases, believing the second statement is damaging to society. A muslim who believes that the world was created 6000 years ago is supporting a false idea and spreading ignorance. A muslim who believes that sleeping with children is acceptable supports a criminal and monsterous ideology.

In both cases, too, there is an 'actual' answer to the first questions. It behooves us, for intellectual honesty, to determine whether Muhammed bedded a child and if the world is 6000 years old.

In both cases, too, there is a motive for apologists to obfuscate what the passages say. "Well, it says he raped a child, but that's just poetry. Oh, and the Creation story is just poetry too." (on a side note: people should examine the 'scientific claims' of the Qu'ran, it's hilarious what people will spin into their book). If the obfuscation (or enlightenment, I cannot tell) is successful, it does not really matter what the text says - if a modern Muslim believes that Muhammed did not actually rape a child ("because, pbuh, the Prophet wouldn't"), then it's not really a problem from a morality standpoint. As long as the behaviour is deemed to be unacceptable, it's fine.

That said, there's an actual answer to the question. If Muhammed was a rapist, people should know. If people approve, they should be treated like morally deficient people.

Like we've seen with the Qu'ranic Creation story, there are hosts of people who believe it to be true and who deny (with great vigour) evidence to the contrary. It seems that these same people would agree that the Prophet's rapes did occur, and they were acceptable.
 
this may look like blatant trolling

Yes, it is. We could no doubt ask these same questions of other religious icons of the past from various other religions and, guess what, by modern standards they are ALL barbaric.

These threads are getting really old.
 
There is an incredibly deep flaw to this thread: the hadith are not in reliable historical materials. If people are going to accept their validity then why not accept the supernatural content within them and other religious writings? Why rage against supposed contradications with science yet ignore the same for history? It is a very strange that people selectively apply rationality in such cases (political objectives have a tendency to force this though).

The actual historical Muhammed is even harder to know than the historical Siddhartha Gautama. The historical Zarathustra remains not completely known either.

Getting familiar the Quest for the Historical _____ is more useful than going by traditional accounts that have been debunked.

It is amazing the people think that more is known about Muhammed than Julius Ceasar. What is even more amazing is that many non-Muslims have an incredible desparation to agree although for the opposite reasons.

It would be interesting if one day somehow the full truth was finally discovered about many of these religious founders and the reality contradicted the supposedly correct version believed across the world.
 
This thread can only appeal to people who wants the lazy way to discredit Islam by ad populum.I think the OP wants to narrowly to delegate himself to bring forth a tumult on farts for everyone to breathe in this thread.
 
Yes
Yes
No
 
Yep, Mohammemd was a rapist and a pedophile. Going by Arab standards, he would probably have committed incest as well, but by modern standards he would have not.

I don't see the point in aplying modern moral standards to such distant historical events. It happened a thousand years ago, the societal and cultural norms didn't exist then nor did modern moral values with regard to human rights. Muhmmad was indeed a conqueror, killer, rapist, pedophile if you look at him by modern standards.

But I don't look at him by modern standards for it is foolish to do so and serves no purpose when intrepreting and analyzing historical events.
So the next time supposed atrocities by Joshua and the Israelites in Canaan comes up, you won't have an opinion on the subject? ;)
 
So the next time supposed atrocities by Joshua and the Israelites in Canaan comes up, you won't have an opinion on the subject?

I don't believe I've ever spoken about such a matter. Not like it matters anyway.
 
Please narrate to me some instance of the Buddha's barbarism:D.

TBH, I don't know or care. I have no agenda, no axe to grind w/ any religion so I'm not gonna get into some inane debate about people who lived 1 or 2 thousand years ago. Its an excercise in idiocy or trolling, name your poison.
 
I have to agree with Shane here. I mean, the argument aneeshm is presented is just not logically valid. It's like saying a 5 year old is dumb because he/she doesn't know algebra.

Different standards for different times, so if you're going to do a proper juding you have to judge them by the criteria that was present at the time. To judge them by another other criteria is not only illogical, but flatly false.
 
I have to agree with Shane here. I mean, the argument aneeshm is presented is just not logically valid. It's like saying a 5 year old is dumb because he/she doesn't know algebra.

Different standards for different times, so if you're going to do a proper juding you have to judge them by the criteria that was present at the time. To judge them by another other criteria is not only illogical, but flatly false.

Yes and no.
He brings a good point that Muhammed is deemed to be a roll-model. The question of whether or not he is an acceptable one is then a relevent one.

We can first discuss whether he was a rapist, and then we can discuss whether it was acceptable for him to be one. And then we can discuss if he should be admired, still.
 
TBH, I don't know or care. I have no agenda, no axe to grind w/ any religion so I'm not gonna get into some inane debate about people who lived 1 or 2 thousand years ago. Its an excercise in idiocy or trolling, name your poison.

Ah...well, I for one tend to think if the person in question from 1 or 2 thousand years ago is still influencing the world today via their legacy its not idiocy or trolling to discuss them.
 
The real question, was Jesus married and if not was he by the standards of his time or today considered to be homosexual?

He spend awful lot of time with men and of course with some women too so maybe he was bi-sexual?

Now, is this trolling or am I just playing devil's advocate?

The motive of this post and this thread is suspicious one. Since the questions don't lead into any other conclusion but that the morals change over time and the sources are so-so reliable.
 
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