Coould it be down to Spanish way of noting numbers ( , instead of . for decimals) opposed to the anglosaxon way ( . for decimals), my friend is spanish and I play from the UK and we get this error constantly. Perhaps I am way off but I just felt it was worth mentioning it because we get that error every single turn around mid-game, and we need to reload constantly.No sorry.
It is not possible to give an ETA because we do not yet know the cause.
It will also take quite a while to analyze and currently no team member really has the time to do that.
[We the People] Bug reporting
- Thread starter Nightinggale
- Start date
raystuttgart
Civ4Col Modder
Extremely unlikely since that is just the "GUI" (display).
The Issue must be related to something happening in the real game logic (real calculations).
It is not you alone - basically every single Multiplayer player we have tells us about OOS desyncs.
So this is most likely nothing you can fix by yourself - this needs a bugfix by us modders.
Nightinggale
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I still plan to look into it, but I got sidetracked with a bunch of other tasks. I have fixed OOS issues in the past and have added a tool to the game, which is useful for hunting down what could be causing this. Sometimes it can be near impossible to guess the reason as one of the fixed OOS issues turned out to be caused by an AI player doing something in an area not explored by any human players. It is a detective work whenever an OOS is triggered by something, which is less obvious than "click this button".
Nightinggale
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Most of the work is done in C++, but there are some python files too, mainly for graphical stuff. It's not really possible to answer "the files for the calculations" because they all contain calculations.
The C++ files are in project files/DLLsources and the python files in Assets/python.
We have a git repository on GitHub.
oh that's my bad, I don't know C++. Is it really needed to have the scores synched? What would be the issue if the scores were calculated locally against online? Would it affect the game in any manner other than players probably seeing a difference of 1 when browsing over the points?
Nightinggale
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I'm going to assume you mean network sync and yes it matters if the number differs between players. The issue is that it isn't the score.
The game works on the principle that all computers will do all calculations. Often calculating something will get the result faster than waiting for the internet lag and it makes the game work decent even with horrible lag. Overall not a bad design.
The issue is that everybody needs to have the same input for the calculations. The game generates a number where everybody needs to have the same. If the number is different, then it is a sign that the computers disagree on something like who owns a plot, how many units or gold a certain player has or similar. If you found a new colony and no other computer in the network can see that, then you will no longer be playing the same game.
Removing the network sync "score" will not fix the problem because it's like fixing the oil warning on your car by taping over the red light. The problem will still be there even if you can't see it and if you continue, something major will break, which then stops everything.
nci
Warlord
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On WTP Americas Gigantic map, when sailing to/from West part of the map, sailing to Europe/etc. sometimes takes twice the time - 12 turns instead of 6 on Marathon speed. Is it a bug or a feature?
The mechanics of this are very confusing, particularly starting as Russia, settling near starting location and sailing to Europe results in 12 turns if Go to Europe command is issued to a ship leaving town, but only 6 turns when manually directing a ship to the very same tile and issuing Go to Europe command from there. Also, for different cities located mere couple tiles from each other, length of journey from Europe will vary as well.
The mechanics of this are very confusing, particularly starting as Russia, settling near starting location and sailing to Europe results in 12 turns if Go to Europe command is issued to a ship leaving town, but only 6 turns when manually directing a ship to the very same tile and issuing Go to Europe command from there. Also, for different cities located mere couple tiles from each other, length of journey from Europe will vary as well.
That is WAD - the way from the western coast of the Americas around the Cape of Good Hope (around the tip of South Africa to Europe) is far longer than the trip from the eastern coast just across the Atlantic. The Suez canal did not exist yet at that time to shorten the route and the "Northwest passage" (the way from Canada along the north coast of Siberia to Europe) was still unpassable with wooden ships vulnerable to ice.
Russia is large and the Tzar is far.
raystuttgart
Civ4Col Modder
It is in fact a Vanilla feature. (It is configured in XML and can easily be changed.)
Seriously, it is not a bug - it has been purposely designed like that. (By the original programmers of Vanilla.)
see this file in Vanilla:
CIV4EuropeInfo.xml
That is probalby a small issue related to the Map - it is not a bug of the game logic.
(We have never touched the logic related to Europe Travel Time - it is basically still Vanilla.)
The old RaR maps are full of small issues like that and it would take for ever to find all of them to correct them.
(e.g. "EUROPE_EAST" plots accidently placed directly next to "EUROPE_WEST" plots.)
Map Creators simply sometimes forget about small differences like e.g. "COAST" / "OCEAN" or "EUROPE_EAST" / "EUROPE_WEST".
Also creating gigantic Maps like "New World" is a massive effort so sometimes small mistakes slip in.
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Perhaps not a bug but rather an ease of use element.
In the trading screen one can select on the left for which loads of goods one wants to trade (e.g. fur, iron, food)
The ship doing the trading is a Caravel with only 2 slots for cargo - which means trying that deal with all 3 of the offered goods would waste one cargo that simply vanishes.
It can´t go to the ship where only 2 goods are loaded and it does not stay with the indians regardless that it could not be loaded to the ship and it is not on the floor to be picked up later - it´s simply gone.
Would it be possible to limit the number of goods a player can select to the number of open slots the ship has (to prevent trading for more than you could possibly load)?
Could the surplus goods that can´t be loaded but that have been bought either be placed "on the floor" to be picked up later with another ship?
If not, would it be possible to have the surplus goods be given back to indian possession as a "surprise gift"?
In the trading screen one can select on the left for which loads of goods one wants to trade (e.g. fur, iron, food)
The ship doing the trading is a Caravel with only 2 slots for cargo - which means trying that deal with all 3 of the offered goods would waste one cargo that simply vanishes.
It can´t go to the ship where only 2 goods are loaded and it does not stay with the indians regardless that it could not be loaded to the ship and it is not on the floor to be picked up later - it´s simply gone.
Would it be possible to limit the number of goods a player can select to the number of open slots the ship has (to prevent trading for more than you could possibly load)?
Could the surplus goods that can´t be loaded but that have been bought either be placed "on the floor" to be picked up later with another ship?
If not, would it be possible to have the surplus goods be given back to indian possession as a "surprise gift"?
Nightinggale
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Likely not trivial because the trading screen is inside the exe, hence can't be modded. We can only work on it indirectly. If we want to change something in the screen itself then we might have to replace it with a new screen, which we code from scratch
I'm not saying what you request isn't doable and yes we would like to add this. I'm saying it's far from trivial to do. That's not the same as it won't happen eventually.
Taurus
Chieftain
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What about this one:
I have two bishops in Jamestown (as seen on domestic advisor), but only second one is active, the first one isn't visible in city view.
If you hoover mouse over the first bishop there is no info about him (as is on second one on screenshot) and also little icon in upper right corner is somehow strange:
I have two bishops in Jamestown (as seen on domestic advisor), but only second one is active, the first one isn't visible in city view.
If you hoover mouse over the first bishop there is no info about him (as is on second one on screenshot) and also little icon in upper right corner is somehow strange:
raystuttgart
Civ4Col Modder
Yes it is, because it is not one of our Profession Icons.
That Icon looks like an Vanilla Civ4BTS Icon.
There is absolutely no explanation I currently have for it.
(Unless of course you tried to modify WTP yourself ...)
Please show a Screenshot of the City Screen.
(So we can see what is going on inside the city.)
And just so we really understand:
1. Do you actually have 2 Bishops in Jamestown or not?
2. Which version of WTP do you play?
3. Did you try to modify WTP yourself ?
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Summary:
This might indeed be a bug - it defnitely looks like it so far.
But to analyze what is going on, we need more information.
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I tried to reproduce this but could not do so. In my tests everything worked perfectly.
Simply because I do not know what is going on from the sparse information.
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Taurus
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Hmm... Strange...
So there is that event when his holiness (archbishop) gives you a bishop for moderate sum of gold. So I've got this event twice.
1. When first bishop came I set him in Jamestown's chapel to pray and forgot on him, after that I didn't check or even looked at him and obvious he is not in the city (in chapel is preacher!), but domestic advisor shows him (with Civ4BTS icon, as you said). You can check it on this old save.
2. After a while there was the same event with bishop again and then I was confused because I remember that one bishop should be already there but there was only preacher. Screenshot in previous post describes that. Here is save for the second case.
I play unmoded WTP, ver. 2.8.2.0, downloaded on GitHub.
So there is that event when his holiness (archbishop) gives you a bishop for moderate sum of gold. So I've got this event twice.
1. When first bishop came I set him in Jamestown's chapel to pray and forgot on him, after that I didn't check or even looked at him and obvious he is not in the city (in chapel is preacher!), but domestic advisor shows him (with Civ4BTS icon, as you said). You can check it on this old save.
2. After a while there was the same event with bishop again and then I was confused because I remember that one bishop should be already there but there was only preacher. Screenshot in previous post describes that. Here is save for the second case.
I play unmoded WTP, ver. 2.8.2.0, downloaded on GitHub.
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raystuttgart
Civ4Col Modder
@Taurus
The DLL-Diplo-Event "Bishop" can trigger twice (or even more often a game).
(It is limted by a few factors though, e.g. the amount of Cities you have.)
So that is not the problem.
The only thing that was confusing me was the icon, because I can not explain it.
(There is no Profession in WTP that uses it.)
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And as I read from your explanation the "Archbishop" somehow turned into a "Preacher" ...
That would definitely sound like a serious bug ...
I am absolutely confident that such a bug has never occured in 2.8.1 or our last official 2.8.
(I am also absolutely confident that it is not happening in the current "feature branch" I work on - which does not contain the new changes of 2.8.2 however.)
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Thanks a lot for posting about this bug, but please post bugs for 2.8.2. here.
2.8.2 is pretty much an "alpha" release (a "Release Candidate") we published to community to help bug fixing - even though we knew it had bugs and was not fully tested.
(We did that because we hoped to be able to analyse the Multiplayer OOS desyncs players reported.)
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@Nightinggale
Could you check what is wrong with the icon using the save of @Taurus?
(And if the Archbishop really turned into a Preacher that would sound like a serious bug.)
I tried to reproduce the issue with that icon in "Large Rivers", but I could not do so.
I thus currently suspect that it might be another issue with the Savegame Format.
Since it is a bug report for 2.8.2 I can not test it that easily and probably also could not fix it.
(My development and test setup is "Large Rivers" as you know and I do not want to have overhead switching it.)
The DLL-Diplo-Event "Bishop" can trigger twice (or even more often a game).
(It is limted by a few factors though, e.g. the amount of Cities you have.)
So that is not the problem.
The only thing that was confusing me was the icon, because I can not explain it.
(There is no Profession in WTP that uses it.)
-----
And as I read from your explanation the "Archbishop" somehow turned into a "Preacher" ...
That would definitely sound like a serious bug ...
I am absolutely confident that such a bug has never occured in 2.8.1 or our last official 2.8.
(I am also absolutely confident that it is not happening in the current "feature branch" I work on - which does not contain the new changes of 2.8.2 however.)
-----
Thanks a lot for posting about this bug, but please post bugs for 2.8.2. here.
2.8.2 is pretty much an "alpha" release (a "Release Candidate") we published to community to help bug fixing - even though we knew it had bugs and was not fully tested.
(We did that because we hoped to be able to analyse the Multiplayer OOS desyncs players reported.)
-----
@Nightinggale
Could you check what is wrong with the icon using the save of @Taurus?
(And if the Archbishop really turned into a Preacher that would sound like a serious bug.)
I tried to reproduce the issue with that icon in "Large Rivers", but I could not do so.
I thus currently suspect that it might be another issue with the Savegame Format.
Since it is a bug report for 2.8.2 I can not test it that easily and probably also could not fix it.
(My development and test setup is "Large Rivers" as you know and I do not want to have overhead switching it.)
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Nightinggale
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I can confirm something weird is going on. There is a bishop in the citizens list and that unit isn't in the colony screen. No idea what happened here before digging into it with the debugger. No idea if a bishop turned into a preacher or if it just vanished and another unit decided to work in the now empty chapel. Regardless of what happened, something is very wrong. I wonder if learning by doing could have triggered, but if that happened, the bishop should be gone. This really needs investigation. It's a shame there is no savegame from before the bishop went weird.@Nightinggale
Could you check what is wrong with the icon using the save of @Taurus?
(And if the Archbishop really turned into a Preacher that would sound like a serious bug.)
raystuttgart
Civ4Col Modder
But all the variables from "Learning by Doing" are correctly handled in the new Savegame Format, right?
I am here explicitly thinking about this one:
<bLbDCanBecomeExpert>0</bLbDCanBecomeExpert>
---> It should be set to 0 for all Experte Units and it definitely is for the Bishop and all other Experts in XML.
---> But was it handled / considered correctly in the new Savegame Format? I just do not know ...
If that is not stored in the new Savegame Format, we probalby have a massive issue.
Because Expert Units may change to other ones accidently.
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But again, this is an issue for 2.8.2 as it seems.
(This never occured in previous official releases.)
