Wehrmachtsgespann WW2 - Motorcycle

[Wolfshanze]

Refar said:

I don't care either.

For those that don't care, some sure go to lengths to justify thier "not caring"... I don't care what folks USE it for, I just care if they say it's historically accurate to use it for purpose-x when it wasn't so. I try and be a little more faithful to history when the opportunity is present.

 

[Arian]

Wolfie:

For those that don't care, some sure go to lengths to justify thier "not caring"... I don't care what folks USE it for, I just care if they say it's historically accurate to use it for purpose-x when it wasn't so. I try and be a little more faithful to history when the opportunity is present.

Well, again I don't care, but to what I'm trying to say (and I think Refar too) is that this unit could be implemented in a mod, and i.e. fit as a modern explorer.

P.S. Wolf don't get angry

 

[Refar]

I don't care what folks USE it for, I just care if they say it's historically accurate to use it for purpose-x when it wasn't so. I try and be a little more faithful to history when the opportunity is present.

And of course you are the one havint the ultimate understanding of history. Which is why you felt obliged to bring history up without ever beeing asked for it (and not only at this one occasion at hand). And this is also why you keep SHOUTING at people - because you don't feel you can make us understand the ultimate truth without stressing out those important keywords.

Anyway, no need to argue any longer. Useless unit removed.

 

[GeneralMatt]

That smacked of Dutchking kinda..
Refar, it was an excellent unit, but you do have to realize that Wolfshanze was only trying to clear up some people's misconception on the use of the said art in a default regular game, or even a large scale WWII mod.
And I would think people that have lived a lot longer, and studied the said topic of history would have a much more knowledgeable opinion on the said topic. That is why I let Wolfshanze 'boss' me around (in a nice way of course) on matter of authenticy, most people my senior, do obviously know much more than I in a wide scope of topics, so I try to refer to them on issues were I can.

He was in no way commenting on your artwork, he was just disagreeing with one use of the said art.

 

[Arian]

Come on guys...let's forget it.

To Refar: no need to remove the unit. Plz put it back!

 

[The_Coyote]

File Removed

a too good unit lost

 

[wotan321]

Anyway, no need to argue any longer. Useless unit removed.

Wow, that is disappointing. I was very happy to see that unit, but now its gone. I sure wish I'd have downloaded it.

 

[bernie14]

File Removed

DARN Refar!! , didnt get a chance to DL... could u pm me so u could email it to me...i really did like it

 

[Refar]

Sorry about the collateral damage. I am aware i am overreacting, but i am to to do something about it. The unit is probably going to be in the Fury Road Mod. (I think the current version does only have a early prototype with some animation glitches).

 

[JustATourist]

That smacked of Dutchking kinda..
Refar, it was an excellent unit, but you do have to realize that Wolfshanze was only trying to clear up some people's misconception on the use of the said art in a default regular game, or even a large scale WWII mod.
And I would think people that have lived a lot longer, and studied the said topic of history would have a much more knowledgeable opinion on the said topic. That is why I let Wolfshanze 'boss' me around (in a nice way of course) on matter of authenticy, most people my senior, do obviously know much more than I in a wide scope of topics, so I try to refer to them on issues were I can.

He was in no way commenting on your artwork, he was just disagreeing with one use of the said art.

Well Matt, I think we can discuss this in a polite way, so I'll try to make you understand another point of view:

This forum here is about artwork. Refar made a very nice peace of artwort, it was something completly new, nobody done before. I call this creative work, and people who do this kind of work should be encouraged. People may use new artwork or leave it alone, it doesn't matter, allthough many downloads and positive feedbacks are allways encouraging.

However this is no forum about historical discussions. I got Wolfshanzes comment this way: "Don't download this unit, because is it not historical accurate." He didn't wrote this literally, but this was his tone. This is not polite and not fine with me. And he is doing such comments in every second thread, allways reminding everyone, he is the only one, who knows the true history.

Personally I am willing to listen to every serious arguments, which are written in a polite way. But who is shouting back, insulting, continuously hijacking forum threads and not listening to any other peoples opinions is allways wrong.

By the way: With my previous comment about "with this logic" I copied a comment from Wolfshanze, with which he tried to forbid me, to write my oppinion, but he did not get the hint.

I just had to write down how impolite it looks to some people, if somebody is allways running down artwork with absolutly irrelevant comments about historical accuracies. But I won't comment on this topic any further, regardless of what insults now will come.


P.S.: Refar, you know what we have talked about the other day, when you tried to calm me down. Please think about, if you can ignore this incident and reupload thi unit. Some people would be really delighted.

 

[Refar]

I can take criticism to the artwork - it's what the thread was for. I might even listen to it.

I can't stand the the arrogant, patronizing, unpolite bearing of someone who keeps quoting parts of statements out of context, presenting historical facts only so far they are conform with his enlightened view, and ignoring the rest, while everyone else is fallen to a "misconception" - about the worst thing you can do with history - and keeps telling me, what i should or should not do with my game and my artwork; And who keeps using arwork, without as much as giving credit - i guess keeping a note for where you got a unit for is too much to ask from someone as enlightened as Wolfschanze is.

And i am stubborn.

 

[Wolfshanze]

 

[KrugerPritz]

Fortunately I've downloaded this unit very soon. Anyway It's a pity Refar that You ritired it... I think all the forum is displeased too.

 

[Xenomorph]

And i am stubborn.

Removing it is nothing short of childish and asinine, though.

But you are right: taking it here was wrong, and for this i would like to apologize.

I am not going to pollute your thread any further, but since i started the brawl in public here, i guess the apology should be public as well.

That, however, was very mature. I think I speak for everyone on the boards when I say thank you for ending this feud.

 

[Refar]

Removing it is nothing short of childish and asinine, though.

Yes, it is.

Actually i don't know why a difference in oppinion ticked me out like this. I sure didn't like the way Wolfschanze presented his opinion, but it should not have caused that kind of over-reaction on my side.

I am really sorry it did.

 

[Xenomorph]

I sure didn't like the way Wolfschanze presented his opinion

Well, Wolf does have a tendency of not presenting his opinion very tactfully (tact, n: the art of making a point without making an enemy), though I can't say I've always made my arguments very tactfully in the past either. Regardless, I am glad this problem was resolved peacefully. It would be a great loss to the community if either of yours or Wolf's works were to be removed.

 

[rockinroger]

Personally I thought they were excellent units Refar and fortunately i got a copy of it. This is a game, and i do not think it has to follow history correctly. If so then we wouldnt have FFH and Warhammer. If people dont like that its not Historically correct, then so be it, dont use them then. Nice work Refar looking forward to more of your great work.

 

[hun+celt]

I know I'm showing up after the battle but I'm going to throw in my 2 cents and ask for the unit back as well, Refar. One of the great things about modding Civ is that you can choose to take a given piece of artwork and utilize it in a purely realistic and historically accurate way or you can use it in a "what-if" way. In this case the first camp can classify this as a weak, fast recon unit and the other camp can use it as a light mobile infantry force (a mechanized dragoon regiment if you will). Either way, both sides require the talents of artists in the community who are willing to present the products of their labor for our use and pleasure.

It is very apparent that advocates of pure history and advocates of the "what-if" camp rarely see eye-to-eye...often winding up in extremely contentious fights. While Germany may NOT have widely used the motorcycles as dragoons (Historical), they COULD HAVE (what-if) and there's no reason that I can't use it that way in my mod. Germany didn't beeline for jet engines to establish early air supremacy--should I not do that if I play Germany in a WWII mod? In my experience, pure historians LOVE to expound at length on the specifics and details of a unit's TO&E and tactical use, but when we try to use our knowledge to impose instead of clarify and lose sight of the overall "history + fiction" concept of Civ as a game, then we all lose--the artist is pi**ed off, the unit is gone and neither side can expand their vision of the game. I appreciate that you're irritated Refar, but punishing the entire (often silent) community because of a fight with one member is extreme. I hope that when you cool down you wil reconsider this action. Thank you for your work--however I choose to use it.

 

[GyroLeader]

Come on! We want this unit back!

 

[asioasioasio]

Thx for reuploading it