Weird Start.

[Revent]

Spoiler :

sip because 3 food resources is sexy! Reveals 2 plains hills which are nice so not a bad choice I think. But now I'm stuck here.

I honestly have NO idea what would be the best thing to do here.

At the moment, I'm thinking of building SH for some fail gold first whilst researching fishing. Once fishing is done, I plan to switch straight to a workboat and let it build before going to a worker (or time such that the worker can build a pasture as soon as it comes out)

So if tl;dr

City Build: Stonehenge (fail gold until fishing), Workboat (finish or pause for wokrer), Worker, Warriors (until size 5), Worker, Settler, Worker Settler, etc..

Tech Path: Fishing-Agriculture-AH-BW

Advice needed

Giving Monarch a go here

 

[DMOC]

There's actually only two food resources, because plains cow generally isn't counted as a true food resource in the CIV community (only three food?!?!?).

I agree with Fishing - Agr - AH - BW. You may want BW before AH if you're planning on chopping forests, but I still think AH first is better. SH for fail gold is fine, I've done that many times, and your worker isn't going to be able to do much anyway. By the way, make sure when you build the workboat you work the maximum amount of hammers. I would finish a workboat before the worker, and put it on the fish -- it's coastal fish, so it's even better because of the extra commerce. Food is more important than production here. Also your build order should include two workboats, not just one.

The part above the tl;dr part is one line on my computer, so it's definitely not tl;dr for me.

Do you have a save?

EDIT: On second thought, I think it may be best to start worker first, then switch to a workboat once Fishing is researched. Then, build Stonehenge while growing to size 2, then finish up the worker, and follow that with your second workboat. Following that, a warrior would be good. Many possibilities here. I'm not sure which one is "optimal" but having the optimal build order to start isn't the limiting factor on Monarch difficulty games.

 

[rah]

I'm still waiting for the weird part.

 

[lymond]

Resource bubbles please. Also, imgur screenies tend to come out large. I recommend putting them in spoiler tags. Really most screens should go in tags.

With Fish start, I might consider BW before AH. You might just whip out your first worker.

 

[Manco Capac]

I'm still waiting for the weird part.

The huts, duh!

 

[Revent]

There's actually only two food resources, because plains cow generally isn't counted as a true food resource in the CIV community (only three food?!?!?).

I agree with Fishing - Agr - AH - BW. You may want BW before AH if you're planning on chopping forests, but I still think AH first is better. SH for fail gold is fine, I've done that many times, and your worker isn't going to be able to do much anyway. By the way, make sure when you build the workboat you work the maximum amount of hammers. I would finish a workboat before the worker, and put it on the fish -- it's coastal fish, so it's even better because of the extra commerce. Food is more important than production here. Also your build order should include two workboats, not just one.

The part above the tl;dr part is one line on my computer, so it's definitely not tl;dr for me.

Do you have a save?

EDIT: On second thought, I think it may be best to start worker first, then switch to a workboat once Fishing is researched. Then, build Stonehenge while growing to size 2, then finish up the worker, and follow that with your second workboat. Following that, a warrior would be good. Many possibilities here. I'm not sure which one is "optimal" but having the optimal build order to start isn't the limiting factor on Monarch difficulty games.

Yeah, save attahced. But ideally, I'd like to have 3-4 cities up ASAP, since I'm at the coast I have a feeling that I may get blocked in if I don't expand quickly so Stonehenge may also seem to be a waste of turns here so not sure about that anymore...At the same time, if I build a worker first, wouldn't that then slow down the city growth leading to a workboat taking longer to come out? Having an optimal start sure would help though I'm considering BW first actually so that at the same time, I could quickly find some copper to build on/near and chopping down the trees could get me some settlers and workers faster.

So revised plan now is:
Fishing-BW-Agri-AH
City Build:Warrior (till Fishing is done, then put on pause), Workboat, Workboat, Worker (whip), Warrior till 3, Settler

Is it better?

I'm still waiting for the weird part.

Weird for me...Although a helpful response would be much more appreciated. Thanks.

Resource bubbles please. Also, imgur screenies tend to come out large. I recommend putting them in spoiler tags. Really most screens should go in tags.

With Fish start, I might consider BW before AH. You might just whip out your first worker.

Sorry! Forgot :$

Sure, I'll just edit that now actually. Just read your post now after deciding what to do and am going for BW after all

 

[shakabrade]

When uploading pics on imgur, choose edit option for all pics and then upload. Then, you'll be able to resize your pictures. I usually resize to 1366x768 since most people should be able to see that on their laptops and they are big enough for all the details.

Regarding the game, Fishing-->BW is only good start. I would even finish that warrior by working grassland hill forrest for 1T. Researching fishing takes 7 turns, right?

 

[lymond]

^^^ah...I did not notice the ability to resize pre-upload on imgur. I had recently switched back to imageshack for that reason. It's actually easier from the "Images" page since you can just set the predefined resolution before the upload. No "1366x768" is predefined, but I think 1280X1024 is the perfect size for the forum.

The edit option seems to distort the picture badly.

Imageshack resizing is very easy too.

 

[ecuwins]

The edit option seems to distort the picture badly.

Yes it does, as does resizing down from 1920x1080. I've yet to find a better option than changing my resolution just for taking screen shots :blech, or just cropping the dang thing.

 

[The Oz-Man]

That's not so weird a start at all. Pretty decent production site, but you'll definitely want to find a place to cottage up for Bureau. Plains cows aren't amazing, but coastal fish certainly is. Tech Fishing, then I'd probably get BW before AH. You'll have plenty of food growing on the fish and the clams. I'm sure one of the efficiency nuts will tell me I'm wrong, though.

 

[lymond]

Yes it does, as does resizing down from 1920x1080. I've yet to find a better option than changing my resolution just for taking screen shots :blech, or just cropping the dang thing.

Well, the other options I mentioned...Imageshack and the other page on Imgur...allow you to resize pre-upload and do not distort the picture at all. Very simple

 

[Revent]

Spoiler :

Hopefully this should be fine now

Anyways, just a quick idea of what I did afterwards.
I did as shakabrade said and actually finished it such that the warrior finished one turn after I finished fishing. After that I went for a workboat and put city growth to a stall with it working the 3h tile to finish that ASAP. Then let city grow to size 2 whilst building a warrior. I planned to build a warrior and churn out settlers at size 4 or 5, but I saw Izzy was VERY close to me so at size 3, I chopped a settler and settled right next to her in 2440 BC. Eek! Monarch is pretty tough, I'm actually enjoying this A LOT!

So in simple words:
Delhi: Warrior-Workboat-Warrior-Worker-Warrior-Settler to found Bombay-Warrior-Settler (building now)
Bombay: Monument-Stonehenge (fail gold)-Barracks (to let city grow a bit, building now)
Vijaynagara-Monument (building now, just founded city to get copper)

Tech Path: Fishing-BW-TW-Agri-AH-Writing-Pottery-IW (Working on IW now)

I would in normal circumstances leave IW for a trade as I already have copper access, but Hats is just down there and I want to settle all that yummy grassland before she does! With that, I imagine I'll try to beeline to calendar.

So thoughts for now:
-Build a warrior and send him down to find Hats border and good city sites nearby
-Settle near Hats and block off access to all that jungle and calendar resources.
-After that, build a library in my cap and set up two science specialists and get Vijaynagara to pump out two or three settlers to backfill the land which hopefully Hats will not have access to. Speaking of that, should I have to close my borders with her for her to not fill in my land?
-Build a workboat and four more workers in Vijaynagara; I have too much land being worked unimproved!
-Izzy will soon be getting access to Horses probably, southwest of her current border in the map so an axe rush is out of the option regardless of whether or not she has copper. Chariots do a lot of damage to Axes and I think it's a bit late for the rush anyway. BUT, if I somehow get access to Iron, quickly killing off Izzy is much more possible than with axes so I will keep that in mind (although Hats won't be too happy, she's pleased with Izzy)
-A bit more long term, once I get my cities stabilised, I will try to expand to the southwest as I feel Gilgy might be somewhere there, I saw his scout coming from there when I met him

Oh also, Tech Path I'm Considering: IW-Aesthetics-Calendar, I'm hoping to trade Aesthetics for Alpha, Sailing and Maths

Thoughts guys?

 

[The Oz-Man]

Yeesh. Izzy is right up in your grill. Do you have anything to rush her with?

EDIT: I see you have Copper! It may be a hair late for an axe rush. But it might be doable if you hurry. Honestly, if I find an AI that close that soon, my thoughts immediately turn to how to get rid of that person.

 

[Revent]

Nope, nothing yet. I've never started a rush this late on any level!! My rush normally continues at this point in time, but by then, all my axes have CRII and some have CRIII promotions and I reinforce those with CRI(I) swords (settle my first GG if I get it).

I honestly think it is too late for axe rushing her. I plan to take her out with Swords though hopefully. She really is too close.

Actually, I think one possible way to do this would be to settle my settler ON the horses, that way, she shouldn't be able to build any chariots. But the maintenance may cripple me quite a bit although the city itself isn't going to be a terrible city, Her bragging tells me she has no copper or iron yet though so an axe rush IS possible if those horses can be blocked, but may be tough. I'd have to have all my cities working on producing axes so that I could get some quickly enough before she settles near copper.

 

[The Oz-Man]

Oh, I just saw you have horses as well. Definitely early enough for a Horse Archer rush! You'll probably punt at least some of the jungle land, but not having Isabella right next to you is a plus. She may have founded a religion for you, too.

If you're worried about her getting chariots, bring some spears along. You've got the metal for it. Like I said, you'll have to hurry, and you may do well to wait and go straight for Construction just now, but I'd definitely think about what you're going to do about her--especially because she has a ton and a half of good, usable land (i.e. not jungle) right behind her.

 

[Revent]

Ah right. Yes a HA rush could work, although I've never done one before! How many do you think I will need and what kind of promotions should they get? Do you suggest a stable and/or barracks before I storm in on her? How will they fare against axes? Sorry for all the silly questions :$ I've never actually paid much attention to mounted units before.

And yup, Izzy's got Budhism.

Also, is it weird that none of the AI have teched alpha yet? :s I would've thought they'd have it by now..Turn 142, I've almost killed Izzy now with HA's. She's down to her last two cities and STILL neither Hats or Gilgs has Alpha which is a bit weird because Hats has TGL (wait, what? I thought Lit wasn't a top priority tech :/, alpha was) and is currently researching philosophy.

 

[Heathcliff]

That's how my starts use to look like when I start a new game.
Seriously that start is horrible, it will be like playing an emperorgame with that start.
So few resources...
Good luck

 

[learner gamer]

...it will be like playing an emperor game with that start.
So few resources...

Agreed – it’s certainly one of the more challenging monarch maps IMHO.

@Revent: FWIW, I went BW > fishing to open whilst building a worker > warrior > WB. IMHO, the keys are (i) to get the worker to mine (rather than chop) the riverside forested plains hill – this improves the tile a turn after fishing arrives so the chop goes into the WB and (ii) switch between working a forested grassland and forested plains tile (IIRC) to finish the warrior as fishing is finished. Your worker can then just chop other forests to hasten the arrival of another WB and other units.

This aside, I think the key here is to realise that your neighbours Izzy and Hatty don’t tend to produce that many units – so one or both can be taken down to create some space for your civ if wanted. (FWIW, I chariot rushed Izzy and have Hatty down to one city with HAs – but you could alternatively chariot rush Izzy and then play more peacefully / build wonders to leverage Gandhi's philosophical trait). The best tip I can provide here is to perhaps have a look at the following guide, which gives you an idea of the types of behaviour expected from each AI.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=236346

There are also spreadsheets around that provide more maths detail if wanted.

Solving the resource / happiness issue meanwhile means that monarchy or calendar (which I chose) will be priorities...and of course it helps if you can manage to pop IW from a hut too.

 

[Revent]

Agreed – it’s certainly one of the more challenging monarch maps IMHO.

@Revent: FWIW, I went BW > fishing to open whilst building a worker > warrior > WB. IMHO, the keys are (i) to get the worker to mine (rather than chop) the riverside forested plains hill – this improves the tile a turn after fishing arrives so the chop goes into the WB and (ii) switch between working a forested grassland and forested plains tile (IIRC) to finish the warrior as fishing is finished. Your worker can then just chop other forests to hasten the arrival of another WB and other units.

This aside, I think the key here is to realise that your neighbours Izzy and Hatty don’t tend to produce that many units – so one or both can be taken down to create some space for your civ if wanted. (FWIW, I chariot rushed Izzy and have Hatty down to one city with HAs – but you could alternatively chariot rush Izzy and then play more peacefully / build wonders to leverage Gandhi's philosophical trait). The best tip I can provide here is to perhaps have a look at the following guide, which gives you an idea of the types of behaviour expected from each AI.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=236346

There are also spreadsheets around that provide more maths detail if wanted.

Solving the resource / happiness issue meanwhile means that monarchy or calendar (which I chose) will be priorities...and of course it helps if you can manage to pop IW from a hut too.

I actually ended up doing something along those lines I HA rushed Izzy and used those promoted HA's along with reinforcements to take out Hats because Gilgy seemed to be much higher than me in power rating. But then I tried to continue this with Gilgy and ragequit after taking his borderline cities and losing my army.

 

[Nick Carpathia]

More workers! India should always be on top of their tile improvements. Get those floodplains farmed and cottaged.

I would have settled Vijay 2S, as I don't see it has any food. 2S at least gives floodplains for a slow start (but it's a start). It's off-coast, but honestly avoiding off-coast is overrated.