Lexicus
Deity
"billionaire" = "understands economics"
oh mah hart
mah sole
oh mah hart
mah sole
What are your thoughts on BitCoin?
- Thread starter aimeeandbeatles
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Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
"but advocates Keynesianism" = "doesn't understand economics"
Moriarte
Immortal
- Joined
- May 10, 2012
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- 2,690
I was not saying you don’t understand something in particular, you’ve shown enough of this yourself already. For example your “fraction of a cost” says volumes about levels of understanding and we can end constructive discussion right there. I don’t have time for your crusade. My message was generalised warning, lol.
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Is there a crypto that currently does not have an increasing cost per transaction built into the model?
Pointing out reality is a crusade? That looks like a persecution complex you have there.
My bank is certainly not charging me in the range of 10 - 30 dollars per transaction. If they would spend anywhere near as much on a single transactions as a Bitcoin transaction costs in energy, they'd be out of business very soon.
There is some promise in using a hashgraph instead of the blockchain and proof-of-stake instead of proof-of-work and that is supposed to scale much better. But the fundamental problem of the scalability of public, distributed ledgers remains: The larger the network, the more checks have to be made that would be redundant if you had a private, central ledger. This means the former will always be more expensive than the latter. How small the gap can be made is a question of technology and design, but so far nobody has shown a cryptocurrency that could handle a significant amount of transactions in an economy at reasonable cost.
yung.carl.jung
Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious
on the other hand a regular litecoin transaction costs somewhere between 0.1 to 0.005 cents depending on how much you are sending and is often processed in a matter of seconds, so if your goal was to show that bank transaction are somehow faster and cheaper than crypto transactions you're just flat out wrong.
bitcoin is both slow and expensive, those are the major pitfalls of the currency.
Kozmos
Jew Detective
But like I said the European TIPS system should be rolling out in November, and some CC's will certainly lose their edge in the speed and cheapness.
that's the transaction cost to the customer. With the bank, the transaction cost to the customer is a combination of the actual cost and the profit to the shareholders. With Bitcoin, the transaction costs are being massively subsidized by the miners. The miners are being paid by speculators in Bitcoin. The transaction costs are effectively subsidized. I don't know if that is true of the cryptocurrency that you are talking about. But if it has miners, it very well probably is
I was talking about electricity cost, not transaction fees. And the median fee last year seems to have been 5 cents and in late December it even went up to over one dollar.
Yes, Litecoin is essentially the same design as Bitcoin with somewhat better parameters. At the moment, the energy cost per transaction is more than 5 dollars per transaction, about half of the Bitcoin cost, but still way more than I would be willing to pay for a normal transaction.
innonimatu
the resident Cassandra
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2006
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- 15,374
True, the very premise of all these coins is that they are expensive to "create", and transactions are tied to such creation. Even where that approach is rejected, the idea of transactions having to be signed, distributed, and published always increases the cost. For no real gain, because as we have been witnessing fraud has been much less of a problem with "traditional" transactions than with these cryptotoys. It is a cost for no gain, a solution to no problem,
Oh, it certainly provides value. It allows electronic transactions to occur in regions that don't have a protected currency, but have internet access. It really is a virtual store of value. That is of tremendous potential social value. It's just being born at tremendous social cost. That is a LOT of energy being spent so that some people can engage in black-market transaction.
Narz
keeping it real
Btc over $10k again, litecoin holding steady above $200, etherium still below $1k
Narz
keeping it real
We just need a better version of it.
I personally think it's a great thing to have a currency that is not controlled by government. The black market meets needs and cuts down on crime. If the legal system and financial systems were just you wouldn't need alt currency but since they aren't we do
Lexicus
Deity
This doesn't make any sense. Every transaction on the black market is a crime by definition.
Narz
keeping it real
I mean real crime, violent crime, not victimless crimes like buying forbidden plants.
Lexicus
Deity
Okay, the way you've phrased that still makes no sense. How does "the black market" address the need for enforcement that results in violent resolutions to disputes in illegal enterprises and illegal trade? Do you mean that using Bitcoin for the black market cuts down on this crime? If so, could you explain a little more?
So those who mine crypto currencies for personal profit are raping the environment and putting future generations at risk? Well, at least us baby boomers can't be blamed for that.
Bitcoin allows people living under bad governments to conduct transactions on their local Black Market. It's not ideal by any stretch, but people need toilet paper.
Lexicus
Deity
I'm not seeing how this answers the question. Bitcoin doesn't create a structure for the resolution of disputes. Mexican drug cartels (just to use one example) kill people for reasons that Bitcoin doesn't address. At least, that's how I see things. Maybe you can make me see them differently.
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