What Civs' Unique Abilites would you like to see changed?

[tonberry]

India should be changed because it’s the only UA that impose a penalty. Hell, I can play a peaceful game with the Mongol, I may not get any benefit for it but I don’t get any drawbacks either.

Arabs oil bonus should also be changed. Whose idea was that? Arabs have oil because they sit on alot of it, not because they’re good at extracting it.


Those two should receive religion related bonus.

 

[Calouste]

I've brainstormed some ideas I think would take some of the major civs in a more realistic and interesting direction.

America -- Arsenal of Democracy -- Golden age when has war declared upon it. Ideology is more influential than normal. -- Tuning is not my strong suit, but this seems to accurately depict what America has done over the course of its preeminence. Reacts strongly to declarations of war (Pearl Harbor, 911), and has had an unparalleled influence on the ideology of the world. America is famous for its idealist stance in what was for so long a realist world.

You might want to read up on the Spanish-American war of 1898, the annexation of Hawai'i, and the creation of the country of Panama to get an idea of how "idealistic" America is. And that's just a five year period as an example.

 

[firstconsul]

You might want to read up on the Spanish-American war of 1898, the annexation of Hawai'i, and the creation of the country of Panama to get an idea of how "idealistic" America is. And that's just a five year period as an example.

Or you could read about Woodrow Wilson and isolationist policy? My point is that relatively speaking, USA is idealistic

 

[Ballza]

1. Polynesia : Their Moai should add + 1 tourism when Archaeologists investigated or finishing Archaeology technology.

2. Austria : Coffee house changes +25%Great People Generation
to +35%(or 50%) Great Artist/Writer/Musician (like real Vienna, city of Culture and World classic orchestra espacially Mozart) and +10% other Great peoples

3. Spain : add +2 tourism on Natural wonder yields.

4. Siam : Wat add 1 Art or Artifact Slot (like the real Wats in Siam/Thailand which oftens have holy or scared Lord Buddha relics, legendary buddha images, including old royal or religion statues for example holy naga, lion, garuda statues.)

5.Egypt : when finishing Archaeology technology, Burial Tomb will add 1 Artifact (like mummy) (with 1 Art or Artifact Slot) that you or emeny can move or steal the mummy to another places

 

[Uberfrog]

5.Egypt : when finishing Archaeology technology, Burial Tomb will add 1 Artifact (like mummy) (with 1 Art or Artifact Slot) that you or emeny can move or steal the mummy to another places

That's a very interesting point. Given the huge amount of Archaeology associated with the tombs of the Egyptians, it'd only make sense for them to get a slight tweak with respect to Great Artefacts.

 

[Ikael]

And now that we know some of the new mechanics in more dettail, some suggestions for already existing civs and their modified UA / UB:

India
UA: Land of the thousand Gods
You adopt the pantheon beliefs of every new religion that you encounter.

A way to show India's penchant for syncretic religion, its UA is set appart from Byzantium due to its focus on multiple small bonuses to its religion (pantheons) rather than on a couple of strong bonus (beliefs).

Arabia
UA: Trade caravans
Land trade routes have a +50% increased radious, religious preassure transmitted trought land trade routes gets doubled

By these couple of modifications, you can use your trade land routes as prime tools for religion expansion, giving them not only brute strenght (religious preassure) but increased reach as well. I think that this is a quite historical accurate type of UA, and that it promotes synergy between different types of gameplay mechanics and its UB, to boot (Bazaar doubles luxury resources thus making their trade routes more efficient).

Spain
UA: 7 cities of gold
Doubles the gold and happiness provided by natural wonders, natural wonder tiles yields +4 tourism

A small tweak to its UA, it still encourages exploration and setting near natural wonders while making it not too overpowered as it happened with their original UA (which could be a game decider) and tieing it with the new tourism mechanic to boot.

Egypt
UB: Burial tomb
+2 happiness, +50% to the chance of artifacts appearing near your cities
Your city yields twice the gold when invaded and one artifact to its conquerors

Because having a game that have introduced archeology for the first time in the series and it making no effects over Egypt or whatsoever simply does not make any sense. By increasing the chance of artifacts appearing near Egyptian cities you introduce a very late game bonus that rewards long term strategies (just like Pharaons used to think!), but making it as well a double edge sword, for that would make your lands far more attractive for pesky foreign relic-hunters, not to mention that it kind of, er, "synergizes" far too well with France's new UA, to boot.


America
UA: We the people
You can access ideologies with the discovery of the printing press, you can acquire ideological traits 25% cheaper

Earlier access to ideologies seems like a nice boost and make for funnier games, for it opens up more options earlier. The faster adquisition of ideological traits rounds up a trait aimed to make the US a powerhouse at the late game with a strenght based on its ideology and political system (which btw, is far more versatile for it helps every type of victory) rather than on culture or science per se, which seems like a more realistic depiction of the US (however, note that the two UU are still there )

Japan
UA: Jade, mirror and sword (In reference to the 3 Imperial treasures)
Japanese cities are 50% more resistant to culture flipping, you recieve +3 culture on your capital for each different civilization that you have met yet you have closed borders with (note: CS's doesn't count, obviously)

A trait focused into the whole "culture as defence against influence" approach, Japan will be able to stand with its own ideology regardless of what the world thinks about it due to increased resistance against city flipping (less unhappiness created by pesky foreign influence) and its culture bonus from mantaining closed borders will provide it with a nice incentive to keep its borders closed that will disminish as the time passes (+3 culture is a massive boost on the early game, yet not so great on the latest stages of the game)

 

[damnyankees]

India
UA: Land of the thousand Gods
You adopt the pantheon beliefs of every new religion that you encounter.

A way to show India's penchant for syncretic religion, its UA is set appart from Byzantium due to its focus on multiple small bonuses to its religion (pantheons) rather than on a couple of strong bonus (beliefs).

This seems WAAAAY overpowered to me. You want India's religion to have over 10 beliefs in a standard game?

America
UA: We the people
You can access ideologies with the discovery of the printing press, you can acquire ideological traits 25% cheaper

Earlier access to ideologies seems like a nice boost and make for funnier games, for it opens up more options earlier. The faster adquisition of ideological traits rounds up a trait aimed to make the US a powerhouse at the late game with a strenght based on its ideology and political system (which btw, is far more versatile for it helps every type of victory) rather than on culture or science per se, which seems like a more realistic depiction of the US (however, note that the two UU are still there )

I like the general idea, but America didn't even exist until well over 300 years after the printing press. Might need to tie it to a different technology.

 

[Calouste]

Or you could read about Woodrow Wilson and isolationist policy? My point is that relatively speaking, USA is idealistic

Do you know what your idealistic, isolationist pal Wilson did during the Banana Wars? I count involvement in six different countries.

And of course isolationist and idealist are far from synonyms.

 

[QuipCloud]

A fairly long, a little off-topic discussion about America:

Spoiler :

I'd agree that America has perhaps the biggest economic influence and effect on the world in all of history (but I wouldn't ignore the fact that China isn't that far behind....) but I wouldn't agree in terms of Science and Culture. As I've said before, Culture does not equal globalisation. People eating wearing an American label or buying American goods like iPhones does not mean America weilds massive cultural influence - it means it has some extremely successful businesses (again, economic power, not cultural). I'd say its Film and Music industry have more of an effect, but it's worth noting that going to see an American film once every three months or passively listening to an American pop song on the way to work does not mean you are suddenly influenced by American culture. Scientifically, I don't think its possible to say any more that there is any one nation that is significantly scientifically advanced compared to others. The most advanced scientific projects tend to be done by large international groups like CERN who have people from all over the world, or by government-independent consumer companies. Defence-wise, America does have cutting-edge military equipment, but signficantly more so than China or the European Union? I'm not so sure.

I'm extremely pleased that France has received a new UA - I think it looks great and fairly unique compared to others. Now, all that remains is for Fireaxis to change some of the more lacklustre UAs. I'm no developer and balancing is not always my strong point but a few suggestions:

Polynesia: Polynesia has a fairly good early-game UA and UI but it gets weak fast, but gets weak fast. I'd prefer something like:

Riches of the Sea: Can embark and move over ocean tiles immediately. 1+ and 1+ from Fish and Atolls. Bonus tourism from Atolls and Marine Luxuries
How about also changing their UI to receive a bonus from Tourism, or maybe increased ? At the moment the Moai do not provide enough culture, even in large quantities, to be worth wasting a hex for. This UA is balanced by the fact it is fairly heavily reliant on Polynesia getting a good starting spot. If not near that much sea or coast.... Well, goodbye Polynesia!

Germany: ??????????: All Culture buildings provide 1+ (maybe 2+?). Railroads only cost 1 instead of 2 .

And their UI could be: Production Facility: Produce 2+ and 2+ . Works all ore resources placed upon. If worked by a city, provides 5% bonus to production of mechanical units including ships, mechanised infantry, planes, etc. (not spaceship parts though). Stacks to 20% increase.

India: Crossroads of the World: India receives 1+ from trade routes but resists religious influence from trade routes.

Celts could do with something like 1+ from untouched forest, but I can see this being too OP early game. Still, I'd like them to have a 'nature' theme to accompany them. I guess whenever I hear the word 'celt' I think 'druid' although Druids were only a small part of the Celtic culture / ethnic group as a whole. Perhaps instead Celts receive a military bonus fighting a civilisation of a different religion. I'm afraid I'm not sure if this is already a religious bonus or not.

England: Sun never Sets: 2+ naval movement bonus, 6+ range to merchant ships, receives an extra spy (or diplomat I guess) - England (or rather 'Britain') managed a huge empire, so this might be small way to reflect that by giving them increased trade range (after all, ships were sailing literally to the other sides of the world - to Australia and NZ). Could be OP so perhaps drop the extra spy / diplomat and give it to a new civilization.

I love the suggestion to do with Japan made above, relating to their long policy of isolationism.

A minor detail I would also like changed is the Inca. I'd like if their UA or UI gave them the ability to remove sheep from the landscape - particularly around mountains. It's so frustrating when a hill tile surrounded by five mountains (which equates to 6+ with the terraces) has a sheep resource on it which would only ever give 3+ or 4+ .

The Mayans could also do with a minor bit of tourism relating to their Pyramid (a big attraction in modern Mexico).

 

[poom3619]

Japan
UA: Jade, mirror and sword (In reference to the 3 Imperial treasures)
Japanese cities are 50% more resistant to culture flipping, you recieve +3 culture on your capital for each different civilization that you have met yet you have closed borders with (note: CS's doesn't count, obviously)

Not quite make sense. I mean, Japan UA will nulled with Open Border? I think being isolated is neither fun or good way to play. IMO Japan might retain Bushido (it's ability and name) with culture resistance.

 

[Ikael]

Regarding America's current influence, in some aspects its power is without historic precedence (there has been no countries in history able to project their power all over the globe perhaps with the exception of Victorian Britain), but in another regards it exercises a very tenuous control and exercise of said power, sometimes backfiring in spectacular fashion with also little historic precedence (hello Talibans, Colombia paramilitary and many other similar Frankensteins). The US is truthly unique in that regard, a short of imperial power without an actual empire to look over.

Not quite make sense. I mean, Japan UA will nulled with Open Border? I think being isolated is neither fun or good way to play. IMO Japan might retain Bushido (it's ability and name) with culture resistance.

Japan have had a policy of self imposed isolationism and prevention of foreign cultural influence that dates back to Nobunaga himself. Even previous to his rule many Japanese rulers looked foreign missionaries and traders with suspicion and distrust, and nowadays Japan it is also known for being able to retain his cultural identity despite of its current level of globalization. A UA that rewards isolationism seems to be quite historically fitting, me thinks, no to mention that it would make for a quite original style of gameplay.

This seems WAAAAY overpowered to me. You want India's religion to have over 10 beliefs in a standard game?

You are right, 10 beliefs is, hum, insane.

What about either of these two?:

Land of the thousand gods (version A)
India acquires the pantheons of the first other 2 religions that it meets and incorporates them to their own religion

Land of the thousand gods (version B)
India acquires one extra pantheon of your choosing, and one additional one once you found a religion

I like the general idea, but America didn't even exist until well over 300 years after the printing press. Might need to tie it to a different technology.

Thing is, putting it into a tech latter than printing press puts it too near the regular ideology acquiring tech (steam power). The only thing more or less halfway there would be acquiring an ideology with the advent of Economics.

 

[GenjiKhan]

2. Austria : Coffee house changes +25%Great People Generation
to +35%(or 50%) Great Artist/Writer/Musician (like real Vienna, city of Culture and World classic orchestra espacially Mozart) and +10% other Great peoples

+10% Great People generation(except Artist/Writer/Musician) and +30% Great Artist/Writer/Musician generation seems good enough for me .

3. Spain : add +2 tourism on Natural wonder yields.

About adding tourism yields on Natural wonders,it would be disnecessary,as the current UA is already strong/weak enough .

America
UA: We the people
You can access ideologies with the discovery of the printing press, you can acquire ideological traits 25% cheaper

Earlier access to ideologies seems like a nice boost and make for funnier games, for it opens up more options earlier. The faster adquisition of ideological traits rounds up a trait aimed to make the US a powerhouse at the late game with a strenght based on its ideology and political system (which btw, is far more versatile for it helps every type of victory) rather than on culture or science per se, which seems like a more realistic depiction of the US (however, note that the two UU are still there )

I suppose that an UA about Great Merchant generation would fit better for USA than an UA about Ideologies,as the early one reflects the financial power of this civilization,which has bigger impact on USA's history than its ideological power(whose potencial can be better explored by World wonders) .

 

[Calouste]

For Spain, replace one of the two UUs with the Costa, an improvement that can only be build on the coast and that generates tourism. Alternatively, give them a Hotel replacement UB that gives +1 tourism on coastal tiles.

 

[Maledict]

Um, current American dominance is not unique in history. Certainly it's the most powerful and devastimg military force ever assembled, but in terms of relative power there have been numerous previous empires that eclipse the current global system.

Heck, the UK at one point was responsibly for literally 35% of the planets GDP. Thats a level of economic dominance unrivalled, and was entirely due to the industrial revolution happening in the UK roughly a century before the rest of the world.

In terms of the ability to project military power there have been numerous empires that would rival Americas - be it Rome, the British or the Mongols. The nature of modern warfare has meant its far harder for superpowers to dominate like they used too - look at how difficult Iraq and Aphghanistan have been. As a poster above put it - the nature of power projection has changed. The British Empire conquered a quarter of the planet with a small number of men and a lot of ships. The States would be hard pressed to conquer more than one country at once - not because its weaker, but because war itself has changed. I think it's doubtful you'll ever see empires with that sort of power and reach again.

 

[meteo63]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet, but I really hope they'd change Rome's unique abilities in BNW, though I highly doubt it. Greece and Rome, are my absolute favorite ancient civilizations, but I've always been slightly disappointed by how they appear in Civ V.

Rome is pretty bland right now. The production boost is decent, it helps you build new infrastructure quickly, but the Glory of Rome as a UA just ignores any of the cultural aspects of Rome coming in and conquering or colonizing new territories for its empire. Also note how they almost entirely borrowed their culture from Greece, honoring it and maintaining it as great culture even after conquering it. I'd like to see one of two things: some cultural or tourism spread bonuses to cities connected by roads or trade to represent so-called "Romanization" process (a controversial term, but the best to describe what I mean); or maybe a tourism bonus related to conquest, like bonuses for Great Works being taken from other cities. Not sure what I'd call this new UA though.

I'd also like the Roman Bath House as a UB, but that's unlikely, unless Rome goes the way of France's possible new Chateau.

As for Greece, well, the UA is fine. Just that the other two items are pretty bad. Hoplites need a unique ability, not just increased strength. And a second UU? Not so great, really. I just wish Civ V recognized Greece as a cultural force too, like great ancient literature and philosophy (unrelated thought: hope that they add a bunch of ancient Greek literature for the Great Works).

I agree also that America needs a change as well, to really fit with the new ideology system. Does anyone think Russia or China will get a change too, or is that unlikely?

 

[LoneRebel]

Could somebody please explain why the common belief that India's UA is "underpowered"?

True, it's probably the only UA that has a negative as well as a positive effect. But as another person already pointed out, that is necessary to prevent it from becoming completely OP.

I would also say that for UB's Egypt's Burial Tomb sort of has a negative effect too.

To get back to the topic, why is India's UA underpowered? True, it encourages tall empires with only a few cities. However, I read in a guide that the net happiness gained from the UA outweighs the net happiness lost once the city's population reaches 4. So, as long as all your cities have a population of at least 4, it doesn't matter how many cities you build. So it can be useful for large empires as well. Is this correct?

Also I got the impression from some posts that India's ability became UP due to changed game mechanics in G&K. I've only played vanilla so far, so could somebody explain to me as well what changed in G&K to make India's ability weaker?

 

[Matthew.]

Basically because tall empires don't suffer from unhappiness anyway, so you are not getting any benefit from going tall, and it punishes you for going wide.

It is better in vanilla where happiness sources are limited, no global/local distinction, no religion, etc.

It can be amusing/fun once you get to late-game and have enough local happiness to counter the double settle cost, as you essentially have unlimited happiness to go as far, wide, and tall as you want, but at that point the game is already over.

 

[Bobert13]

To get back to the topic, why is India's UA underpowered? True, it encourages tall empires with only a few cities. However, I read in a guide that the net happiness gained from the UA outweighs the net happiness lost once the city's population reaches 4. So, as long as all your cities have a population of at least 4, it doesn't matter how many cities you build. So it can be useful for large empires as well. Is this correct?

Also I got the impression from some posts that India's ability became UP due to changed game mechanics in G&K. I've only played vanilla so far, so could somebody explain to me as well what changed in G&K to make India's ability weaker?

In G&K, base city unhappiness (the unhappiness from just founding the city, without population being taken into account at all) went from 2 to 3. For India, it went from 4 to 6. While you could offset the balance at population 4 beforehand, you need to hit population 6 in each city now.

Matthew pretty much covered the rest (Happiness being abundant by the Medieval Era and the change to Local/Global that prevents you from "exporting" happiness once you get Theatres and Stadiums).

 

[LoneRebel]

Basically because tall empires don't suffer from unhappiness anyway, so you are not getting any benefit from going tall, and it punishes you for going wide.

It is better in vanilla where happiness sources are limited, no global/local distinction, no religion, etc.

It can be amusing/fun once you get to late-game and have enough local happiness to counter the double settle cost, as you essentially have unlimited happiness to go as far, wide, and tall as you want, but at that point the game is already over.

I see. A tall empire would get a little extra happiness per turn with India's UA, but the amount would probably be insignificant.

But, is it true that the net happiness change per city would be positive if each city had a population of 4 and above? 4 pop isn't hard for most cities to reach. So if that's true, it doesn't really punish wide empires either. Clearly I must be missing something here. I apologize in advance if I've missed something painfully obvious.

 

[Matthew.]

6 pop. not 4.

Or:

Non-India 6 pop. city is -3 from settle cost and -6 from citizens, so 9 total.

India 6 pop. city is -6 from settle and -3 from citizens, 9 total.

And yeah, they can be played wide to some effect. Making it a priority to ally a mercantile city-state with two unique luxuries is enough to cover it, usually. It is true that the longer the game goes on and the larger your population, the bigger the benefit. A 16 pop. city, which is about average in very late game without really pushing growth, is essentially giving you 5 free happiness--more than a Ceilidh Hall or Burial Tomb.

Basically:

Early-game punished

Middle-game equal to Persia/Celts/Egypt's happiness buildings

Late-game finally begin to see the UA shine

Unfortunately the game is already decided at that point, so it is like the Giant Death Robot: Fun to play around with but doesn't impact most games.