What Civs' Unique Abilites would you like to see changed?

[Furycrab]

The OP makes me sad. Sweden is absolutely awesome, you just need to know how to play it, people seem to forget that when you go to war with one guy, you often still make friends with others, sometimes even more friends than if you tried to be buddies with everyone.


I want changes to Austria. Not sure what, but damn do I hate playing against it.

Germany could use a little spice, not because it's weak, but because it's boring.

Oh and India, because I feel like it's not accomplishing what it really set out to do except in the hands of the AI with insane growth bonuses.

 

[andrewlt]

I would love to see America's UA changed to be more realistic instead of idealistic. There are a few strengths the US has that would make for an interesting UA, alone or in combination with other factors.

1. The US is very good at adapting new technology for commercial or military purposes. The US won a lot of wars with the help of a tech advantage, by getting discoveries to the troops in the field. It's the same thing with the fast commercialization of new technology.
2. Immigration - The US has gotten a lot of "great people" from other nations over the years.
3. Spreading culture to other countries through mass media, though they would have to have this kick in on an earlier technology or it would be too weak.

 

[LoneRebel]

Of course, if one is going to say that they made China "too militaristic", the same criticism would apply even more to Japan. China is at least not entirely militaristic with the Paper Maker. But Japan is designed to be 100% militaristic; it has a militaristic UA and two militaristic UUs, completely disregarding Japan's cultural accomplishments since ancient times (let alone their scientific and industrial accomplishments in modern times).

And it's not such a bad thing, since Japan in-game is pretty good at what they're designed to do. Someone needs to have the "fight at full strength even when damaged" ability. I suppose we just have to accept that it's really impossible to represent all of a civilization's achievements through their uniques.

 

[cybrxkhan]

I suppose we just have to accept that it's really impossible to represent all of a civilization's achievements through their uniques.

This I think is a problem with the uniques - eventually you can't have too many civs with similar-flavored uniques, and its impossible to adequately represent everything a civ did, and it is entirely subjective as to what one considers a civ or culture or nation or whatever's greatest achievement.


As for Japan, I can sort of see why they did the 100% militaristic focus, too, as it encourages one type of playstyle - still, that said, it's basically reinforcing the absolutely ludicrous myth that the Japanese are these uber-martial artist one-with-the-way people with uber-amazing samurai who are uber-amazing and uber-cool with their uber-katanas and uber-warrior code. (As you can tell I absolutely hate how this overemphasis in popular culture about this aspect of Japan's history and culture.) Hence the UA being called "bushido" (a term which according to one of my professors originated from the Meiji era, after the disbandenment of the samurai class, but is nevertheless seen together as embodying samurai culture), the leader from the warring states era, and one of the UUs (the samurai) being from the medieval/early modern era (even though it is represented as the typical stereotypical sword-wielding samurai, despite the fact that historically actual samurai were mainly bow and spear mounted, and were willing to use any weapons necessary, including, yes, guns, which they absolutely loved just as much as swords or any other weapons, contrary to popular opinion).


Ultimately making each civ more unique in gameplay was a good decision, in my opinion. Unfortunately, it's impossible to find a balance between 100% historical accuracy and gameplay.

 

[kirbdog]

Sweden? Eeesh, I can only see myself giving away merchants or prophets. Admirals, Generals, Engineers, Scientists and Artists give long term gains if used correctly which are much more reliable than the relationships with Citystates.

I find your lack of faith in the power of city states disturbing. And your love of admirals and extra generals over them even more so.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

While I think many UAs could stand with some minor tweaks (I've covered some of them in other posts), either because they need to be improved a bit or because they merely don't sync with my play style as much as I'd want them to, the most egregious UAs (i.e. the ones that really just suck) are:

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India
Why it needs to change: This one takes the cake. It makes India suited to only one play style (small and tall) and just seems very generic. I say generic because it never really involves the player in any way. It's just there. And it's one of the few (the only one?) that has a negative modifier attached. Furthermore, it seems slightly offensive to characterize India by population growth. Thousands upon thousands of years of history and... population growth is what we get.

How I'd change it: sure, okay, India has a big population. They're populace. Maybe fold that in more discretely if you're set on having that element. Here's my alternate UA:

Sacred Rivers: Cities adjacent to a river receive +1 faith and +10% growth.

There. Built in growth mechanic to actually help get that big population and a faith element (because how many religions came out of India?). Combine that faith with an early "Sacred Waters" pantheon belief, and you've got a growing, happy river populace. Much more in line with India historically and a little more engaging.

I justify it because India has many sacred rivers flowing through it: the Ganges, Yamuna, Sarasvati, Narmada, etc. Heck, Gandhi is standing on the banks of the Ganges (at least I think that's what it's supposed to be. Might be a beach in Brazil).

The Celts
Why it needs to change: I think this UA (and the one following it) were both conceived before Firaxis had a good handle on how powerful the religions in the game were. They were still being cautious with its application and of giving too much to the civilizations who had faith based UAs (further testament is the fact that the Pictish Warrior loses his ability to gain faith from kills). Honestly, the Celts and Byzantine UAs feel like two parts of what should be one UA, one that both guarantees you a religion and gives you an extra belief.

The problem with the Celt UA is just how weak it is. Very conditional. First, you must have a city directly next to a forest to get any bonus. Second, in order to get the bonus, you cannot improve the forest tile in any way. Third, you only get the extra faith if you have three adjacent forest tiles. For three, you only get +1 faith.

"But the Celts are guaranteed to found a pantheon first!" Okay, yeah, 99 times out of 100, they'll pick the first pantheon belief. So what? They definitely aren't guaranteed to found the first religion, which is much more important, in my opinion.

How I'd change it: I don't have a specific change for this one. It could be improved numerous ways. They could change it to where you can improve the forest tiles for one, because I'm sorry, but it's just slightly ironic to lose faith in a tile I build a camp to hunt deer in if my pantheon is Goddess of the Hunt. They could also change the forest tiles to produce culture instead of faith after you found a pantheon or religion. I don't know. Just something.

The Byzantines
Why it needs to change: Lastly, Theodora. Great UA really. Makes your religion very versatile. But what if, just what if, despite your best efforts, you fail to found a religion? Uh... well, there goes that UA.

How I'd change it: Give them some sort of backup effect. Maybe they get the full effect of whatever religion comes to dominate their capital if they fail to found their own. Or perhaps add in some sort of faith bonus (like the Celts) that virtually guarantees they'll be able to exercise their UA. Maybe they get to keep the effect of their pantheon no matter what (even if another religion dominates their cities).

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(Dis)honorable mentions: Germany. To a lesser degree, America and the Netherlands. I think the Netherlands is probably getting a buff this coming expansion anyway, sort of how England got one in G&Ks.

Fair enough explanations? Let me know what you think.

I definitely like your India UA, much better than the current one. I like the Celt UA, but I agree that having it only on unimproved forest can be counter-intuitive. As for the Byzantines, I agree with where you're coming from....but I suspect that the Reformation ability (the Piety Finisher) might allow the Byzantines a 2nd stab at using their UA.....call it a hunch!

Aussie.

 

[Arachnofiend]

I would love to see America's UA changed to be more realistic instead of idealistic. There are a few strengths the US has that would make for an interesting UA, alone or in combination with other factors.

1. The US is very good at adapting new technology for commercial or military purposes. The US won a lot of wars with the help of a tech advantage, by getting discoveries to the troops in the field. It's the same thing with the fast commercialization of new technology.
2. Immigration - The US has gotten a lot of "great people" from other nations over the years.
3. Spreading culture to other countries through mass media, though they would have to have this kick in on an earlier technology or it would be too weak.

I don't necessarily disagree with America getting a new UA but I do disagree that it should be based more on realism. This is America, being idealist bastards who expect everyone else to act the same way is our thing.

 

[steveg700]

I definitely like your India UA, much better than the current one.

How about + for unimproved cattle tiles?

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Ottomans "Barbary Corsairs" should be more historically correct, like taking slaves (pop) from coastal cities or something.

My 2 cents.

Call it a hunch, but I suspect that with the introduction of proper trade routes, this UA is going to change to tie in with this new game element.

 

[Haig]

China!
The current UA would fit someone like Germany a lot better I think!

I think China's UA could fit how they during the renaissance era of Europe, became a total reclusive state with closed borders, and thoght that the culture of "white foreign devils" was bad and banned trade with them.

China's UA could boost their domestic trade routes, and could protect them from tourism.

 

[Arachnofiend]

China!
The current UA would fit someone like Germany a lot better I think!

I think China's UA could fit how they during the renaissance era of Europe, became a total reclusive state with closed borders, and thoght that the culture of "white foreign devils" was bad and banned trade with them.

China's UA could boost their domestic trade routes, and could protect them from tourism.

...This seems misguided as that policy proved to be ineffective to an almost hilarious degree. If any of the Asian powers should show off their might during Europe's imperial era it would be Japan, who's policy of know-thy-enemy turned them into one of the truly great powers of the time period and the greatest autocratic power other than Prussia.

 

[Verified_Confection_Being]

...This seems misguided as that policy proved to be ineffective to an almost hilarious degree. If any of the Asian powers should show off their might during Europe's imperial era it would be Japan, who's policy of know-thy-enemy turned them into one of the truly great powers of the time period and the greatest autocratic power other than Prussia.

Except that technically they weren't autocratic.

But i digress...

There's nothing wrong with China. I've said it before and i'll say it again; that a UA doesn't fit with all of a civilizations history or the bit of it which in your opinion is the best does not matter. It is there to give a flavour of part of it. There will be civ games in the future where maybe the part you wanted is represented, in the mean time this is what we have. There is nothing wrong with China, this is a matter of taste.

 

[Haig]

...This seems misguided as that policy proved to be ineffective to an almost hilarious degree. If any of the Asian powers should show off their might during Europe's imperial era it would be Japan, who's policy of know-thy-enemy turned them into one of the truly great powers of the time period and the greatest autocratic power other than Prussia.

Hehe yeah the China strategy didn't turn out that well, true, with British empire and other powers humiliating them. I'd just like them to have something more interesting than the Art of War UA. Matters of taste.

 

[Arachnofiend]

No country is truly autocratic, just like how no country is truly democratic. Japan was a nation ruled by the military class with a worshiped leaderhead sitting on the top who the lower classes are taught is unquestionable. It's autocratic enough for me.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the way China is portrayed and I'm not advocating a change for Japan either. I replied because I found the idea of taking the UA out of that particular era amusing; it would be like giving America a Hooverville UB.

 

[cybrxkhan]

I understand that the UA is a matter of subjective flavor, but the point of the whole thread's just about what we would like to see changed. And China is something I would like to see changed, whether others agree or not.

 

[DonStamos]

I'd like to see India's UA look a little something like this:

Gain +1 culture for each follower of a religion (or two followers). Unhappiness from population is halved.

It keeps the high population flavor that the developers wanted, and plays well with the new culture system: India is the birthplace of at least four religions (Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Jainism) and has always had its own VERY resilient culture. So I figured why not use the religion system to "buff" India's culture defense? Trying to out-tourism an India with 3-4 religions, or 1 or 2 big religions would be incredibly difficult - and it doesn't really alter how India could be played, since you wouldn't have to found the religions yourself.

 

[QuipCloud]

I find your lack of faith in the power of city states disturbing. And your love of admirals and extra generals over them even more so.

I freely admit - I am not a fan of City-States at all. I find all too often they are inconsistent and end up being massive gold sinks with very little return. Merchantile and Cultural are the only ones really worth considering in my opinion. Great people on the other hand can give solid rewards and aren't going to abandon you due to spies or other civs giving them unmatchable amounts of money. A great artist can give a 6 alone, ignoring the policy tree that can double that to 12. Proper usage of great admirals and great generals can make them invaluable during war. I'll admit, I've reconsidered Sweden since I begun this thread but I'm still of the opinion I'm not going to be regularly trading great people away.

 

[Mrdarklight]

America's UAs are both just weak. +1 sight is nice, but no huge benefit. half price tiles are just totally unimpressive. If the way I play is any indication, I may save 500-1000gp during the whole game. Weak.

I'd like to play as America, but I just don't see how I could win with those weak UAs.

 

[Mrdarklight]

I freely admit - I am not a fan of City-States at all. I find all too often they are inconsistent and end up being massive gold sinks with very little return. Merchantile and Cultural are the only ones really worth considering in my opinion.

Maintain an alliance with a militaristic CS that gifts a UU and your opinion might change. I got about 6 Chu-Ko-Nus from a miltaristic CS in one game, and maintaining the alliance wasn't difficult. I've also gotten Persian Immortals, American Minutemen and Keshiks. Free units is cool, free UUs from other civilizations is even cooler.

 

[Calouste]

Maintain an alliance with a militaristic CS that gifts a UU and your opinion might change. I got about 6 Chu-Ko-Nus from a miltaristic CS in one game, and maintaining the alliance wasn't difficult. I've also gotten Persian Immortals, American Minutemen and Keshiks. Free units is cool, free UUs from other civilizations is even cooler.

Even cooler are free UUs that keep promotions when upgrading into your own UU, like Mohawk Warriors upgrading into Samurai.