Quiet Sound
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Agreed. We should be spending American tax dollars on Americans. If the government has so much money that it can play world policeman then it's reaching too deeply into our pockets.
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What could of been done with the Iraq war money?
- Thread starter cubsfan6506
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Agreed. We should be spending American tax dollars on Americans. If the government has so much money that it can play world policeman then it's reaching too deeply into our pockets.
Ecofarm
Deity
I'd prefer to cut other programs, if you don't mind.
Let's cut all of those!
Quiet Sound
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You'd prefer to take money from Americans to play world policeman than to spend it on Americans? I do mind, I'm afraid.
CIVPhilzilla
Reagan Republican
Pay down the national debt. After its paid, and you've freed up even more income now that interest no longer needs to be paid, cut taxes.
Ecofarm
Deity
Spending the money on Americans is turning us into a soft entitlement mentality nation, full of fat lazy bastards who complain when welfare only gives them a PS2 and not a PS3. Welfare is destroying this country and ravaging the minds of our people.
On the other hand, spending money on Iraq stopped genocide.
It's not a difficult choice for me...
Fat lazy ignorant americans... or... end genocide.
Not a tough choice at all.
Then again, I'm a global citizen not a rabid nationalist, so... I see the bigger picture (including how a free Iraq benefits the US). But you can stick to one side of one story, if that suits you.
Sui Generis
Emperor
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Unlike some Neo-Con trotskyists (replace socialism with liberal democracy), I would have advocated using that money to improve the crumbling infrastructure of the US.
Sui Generis
Emperor
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Ecofarm
Deity
Why use THAT money?
Why not use the "bail out", or the billions spent on other things. Why do you want to de-fund the effort to spread democracy MORE than you want to de-fund CEO bail-outs?
You people act as if this is the only (or the biggest) expenditure of the US... wrong.
I said I was moderate on economics. I said I was liberal on domestic social policy. I said I was neocon on foreign policy. This is all true. I support government spending and regulation in numerous ways, just not welfare.
Is a neocon:
anti-capital punishment
anti-religion
anti-nafta
pro-gay rights
pro-green regulations
??
No.
Stop trying to paint me into a corner based on partial information, it's unbecomming. You could spend all day trying to label people on CFC, but none of us will appreciate it.
Why not use the "bail out", or the billions spent on other things. Why do you want to de-fund the effort to spread democracy MORE than you want to de-fund CEO bail-outs?
You people act as if this is the only (or the biggest) expenditure of the US... wrong.
I said I was moderate on economics. I said I was liberal on domestic social policy. I said I was neocon on foreign policy. This is all true. I support government spending and regulation in numerous ways, just not welfare.
Is a neocon:
anti-capital punishment
anti-religion
anti-nafta
pro-gay rights
pro-green regulations
??
No.
Stop trying to paint me into a corner based on partial information, it's unbecomming. You could spend all day trying to label people on CFC, but none of us will appreciate it.
Spoiler :
Sui Generis
Emperor
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Ecofarm
Deity
How many people were saved?
Are you considering the continued genocide of Kurds and Swamp Arabs, or do you believe that Saddam was a changed man and would not do that anymore?
His own people hanged him. Cost justified; case closed.
Are you considering the continued genocide of Kurds and Swamp Arabs, or do you believe that Saddam was a changed man and would not do that anymore?
His own people hanged him. Cost justified; case closed.
cubsfan6506
Got u
Why use THAT money?
Why not use the "bail out", or the billions spent on other things. Why do you want to de-fund the effort to spread democracy MORE than you want to de-fund CEO bail-outs?
You people act as if this is the only (or the biggest) expenditure of the US... wrong.
I said I was moderate on economics. I said I was liberal on domestic social policy. I said I was neocon on foreign policy. This is all true. I support government spending and regulation in numerous ways, just not welfare.
Is a neocon:
anti-capital punishment
anti-religion
anti-nafta
pro-gay rights
pro-green regulations
??
No.
Stop trying to paint me into a corner based on partial information, it's unbecomming. You could spend all day trying to label people on CFC, but none of us will appreciate it.
Spoiler :
How many Iraqi's would of been saved from genocide, there is only thirty million of them. My plany saves 90 million people.
Sui Generis
Emperor
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- 1,219
How many people were killed under Saddam Hussein's regime? Directly murdered by his regime.
Ecofarm
Deity
Let's see.
Saddam killed ~250,000 Kurds from ~1987-1990
Saddam killed ~50,000 Swamp Arabs from ~1991-1993
Saddam killed (at least) 50,000 political prisoners (we have the bodies in mass graves and dungeons to prove it) from ~1987-2000
So, in the course of ~15 years, he killed ~400,000 innocents.
Further, by diverting funds from the 'oil for food program' Saddam DIRECTLY caused the deaths of ~400,000 children.
Lastly, there is no reason to believe that the genocides would stop.
We saved millions and this assumes that Saddam did not start another war with a neighbor (would you like the casuality stats from the Iraq-Iran war?).
I don't know where you get your 90 million from, but I think I know.
What if other approach like establish relationship with Saddam hussein and using economic means to pressure him into accepting Human right and more religion freedom ? If u never try, u never know... But then the war was commenced in a haste, with excuses and lies about WMD, link to al queda and cause over 50,000 deaths, both military and civilian.
Whats the bloody excuse ??
So please continue to dream on about USA saving people life... its all . .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .... Self interest is the game here.
Sui Generis
Emperor
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How many people have been killed by the war? The current Iraq war? (This answers my previous post)
Ecofarm
Deity
We did that for 20 years, where were you?
After the genocides, we had to say "enough is enough". Invading Iraq was a moral obligation that took too long to come.
Let's say 200,000 civilians (I think that's a fair estimation). That is nothing compared to what Saddam did in just a couple years.
In the end, we saved more lives than we ended and Saddam was hanged by his own people. Can't ask for much more than that... though democracy would be nice.
At this time, we are working on bonus points (installing a stable democracy). The war was a success the day the Iraqis hanged Saddam and the genocide was ended forever.
cubsfan6506
Got u
To do the math 1(dollar per meal)X3(meals a day)X356(days a year)=1068 dollars to feed a person per year. Then 597,758,000,000(Dollars spent in the Iraq War)/1068(dollars per person per year)/6(years Iraq war has been going on)=93,283,083 or 93 million people kept from starveing per year.
Ecofarm
Deity
Do the math, Saddam re-directed the "oil for food" money and directly killed 400,000 children.
Do you want to pretend that Iraq was a western democracy before?
Besides, food aid only addresses the symptom, it's basically throwing money away.
When your "Iraq money" runs out, do you intend to let them starve?
Or do you admit that it is a temporary solution to a permenant problem and you have really done nothing to change the situation with your proposal. Smoke and mirrors, that's all I get from your plan. I'll take an end to genocide and perhaps even a new democracy over that anyday.
Here's an article for you, from an African intellectual:
"For God's Sake, Please Stop the Aid!"
So
1. Spending money on Iraq, ending genocide and perhaps installing a stable democracy.
2. BS (your plan).
Easy decision.
Do you want to pretend that Iraq was a western democracy before?
Besides, food aid only addresses the symptom, it's basically throwing money away.
When your "Iraq money" runs out, do you intend to let them starve?
Or do you admit that it is a temporary solution to a permenant problem and you have really done nothing to change the situation with your proposal. Smoke and mirrors, that's all I get from your plan. I'll take an end to genocide and perhaps even a new democracy over that anyday.
Here's an article for you, from an African intellectual:
"For God's Sake, Please Stop the Aid!"
http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,363663,00.html
So
1. Spending money on Iraq, ending genocide and perhaps installing a stable democracy.
2. BS (your plan).
Easy decision.
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