What do you know about the holocaust?

G-Man

A One Man's War
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In Israel there are now held the ceremonies that mark the start of the memorial day for the holocaust and heroism. I read in several newspapers interviews with people, expecially teens, from other countries where they were asked what do they know about the holocaust. The results showed that even in Germany and in the eastern european countries, where millions of people were murdered, the people knew very little about it. Now I wanna ask the other people in this forum:
1) What do you know about the holocaust?
2) Have you ever been educated about it in school?

I want you to answer these two questions without looking at what other people have written.
 
Originally posted by G-Man
1) What do you know about the holocaust?

2) Have you ever been educated about it in school?

Well, I could give you a fairly long essay, but I'm not sure that's what you want. But this is a summary of what I know:

- Germany, under National Socialism, made it a state policy to ban various activities by Jews, expropriate them when possible, and otherwise harass with economic and social sanctions to drive them from Germany, in large part because existing bigotry made Jews a convenient scapegoat.

- Several countries - France, Britain, Canada and the U.S. among them - made it difficult both before and during the war for Jewish refugees to flee these laws. Meanwhile, Jews were increasingly sent to concentration camps like Dachau where the legalistic Nazis could find a reason to do so. After the war began, German units were created to shoot large numbers of Jews wherever possible (e.g. in pockets of Russia and Poland where isolation and local prejudice would allow such efforts to be easily contained).

- A review of existing policies in 1941 concluded that they were not effective enough to achieve Nazi aims, and so the "Wansee Protocol" - did I get that right? - charted a larger policy of mass-murder with extermination camps, over and above the concentration camps already in use.

- Germany went ahead in doing so, and was aided and abetted by the Italian government, the French Vichy government, and large, anti-semetic parts of the populations in states like Poland, the Ukraine, etc. in rounding up Jews whereever possible.

- Well there is some argument about this, most evidence suggests that the Nazis had the tacit, and sometimes active support of large segments of the German population for particular policies. Approx. 6,000,000 jews and roughly 1,000,000 gypsies, homosexuals and others deemed "undesirable" by the Nazi state were thus killed, most in gas chambers using a poison called Zyclon B, and roughly 1,000,000 of them in the last several months of the war. Any personal effects from the dead were usually taken and re-used; for example, gold teeth were cannibalized for the gold, stuffed animals repaired and given to German children, etc.

I could support this with considerable detail, but won't because I wouldn't know where to stop: kristallnacht, the laws limiting Jewish trade, the "paradise ghetto" in Theresiendstadt designed to create the appearance of harmony, the Warsaw Ghetto, Mengele's experiments, etc. etc.

BUT MORE TO THE POINT:

I'm sure you're more interested in #2, which is yes, there was a day or two in my high school cirriculum, and some of my university courses touched on it. But most of what I wrote above I discovered from personal interest.

I have to admit, as far as school was concerned, I am disturbed not by the education we did get on it, but what that education was. Most of what I saw in talks about what happened, but says precious little about how and why, so that you can walk away treating it as an aberration, something that crazy people did. And I have seen enough in life to conclude that the Holocaust is not as much of an aberration as many would like to think.

I've always been troubled, for example, by a brilliant and famous work of historiography in my library called "Hitler's Social Revolution," which credibly argues that National Socialism was for the most part a movement of disenfranchised middle class tradesmen and professionals, not the koo koo thugs that they are often conveniently described as.

Hope that answers your question.

R.III
 
I know enough about the holocaust. I know the bare basics, which is probably enough for any person.

And no, I was never formally taught about it in school. Considering the media blasting that everybody gets about it a lot of the time, I would argue that it isn't really necessary to put it down as part of the curriculum.

Perhaps in another 25-40 years, yes, but I don't really see the need for it yet. Every reasonable, decent person knows enough about the holocaust to know that they never want it to happen again. It is, after all, not that distant a part of our history.
 
Originally posted by Richard III
Well, I could give you a fairly long essay, but I'm not sure that's what you want. But this is a summary of what I know:

I don't need anyone to write an essay. What you wrote shows you know a lot about the subject, but I was more interested in the more basic things - such as why, when, etc.
That's also what I mainly wanted to know about in the second question. It's important to know the facts but I believe children and teens must be taught about the danger in racism, about the fact that whether the Germans knew or didn't know about the extermination camps, the problem's root is the fact that they DID vote for a party that said one human is superior to another. I don't know if just talking will do. I believe in this case a picture worths more then a thousand words. You can talk about millions but it won't have the same effect as showing them the piles of dead bodies that were so man they had to be buried by tractors or the mountains of personal items - glasses, hair, shoes, cloths, everything that wasn't an inseperable part of the body - that were found by the allies when they came there.
 
I guess that is part of my point - in this case I don't think a picture is worth 1,000 words. In our (canadian) schools, they show lots of pictures, and everyone sits and looks shocked and feels horrible. But they show pictures of the victims, but say awfully little about the perpetrators, and so it becomes easy to think of Nazis as these guys in strange uniforms in black and white pictures as opposed to, say, the bank clerk at your local branch, or your doctor, or your pharmacist, who starts answers to questions with "I'm not racist, but..."
 
Originally posted by Hamlet
I know enough about the holocaust. I know the bare basics, which is probably enough for any person.

And no, I was never formally taught about it in school. Considering the media blasting that everybody gets about it a lot of the time, I would argue that it isn't really necessary to put it down as part of the curriculum.

Perhaps in another 25-40 years, yes, but I don't really see the need for it yet. Every reasonable, decent person knows enough about the holocaust to know that they never want it to happen again. It is, after all, not that distant a part of our history.

I disagree with that.
 
Here in America we've had a lot of education about the holocaust. We spent weeks on WWII and the holocaust in almost every history class we've had since sixth grade, there are TV shows about it all the time, they make us read books about it in high school, they show Schindler's List commercial free every year on NBC, etc. Really, with all this stuff I probably know more about the holocaust than the people who were in it.

And I specifically remember in my Junior year we had a german exchange student in our U.S. History class. We spent about a month on the subject of WWII and the holocaust adn the kid sitting there just absolutely stunned. The teacher realized this so she asked him to do a little presentation on the German School system and I remember him specifically saying that German schools do not teach anything about the holocaust or Hitler adn very little about WWII. They just conveniently forget it happened. And I thought, that's stupid...those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.
 
I had an entire college course on the subject. In a short summary Hitler and his cronies were plagued by the 'Jewish Question.' Over time the "solutions" these Nazis came up with more and more fanatical solutions until finally extermination became their answer. They were so obsessed that toward the end of the war they diverted trains from the army to haul Jews to concentration camps.
 
Originally posted by G-Man
1) What do you know about the holocaust?
2) Have you ever been educated about it in school?

1) That is hard to say without writing very much, and I don't think it makes much sense to sum up all that comes to my mind about it right now.
So I try to put it more general. I would say that I know much about it. I have always been very interested in history, and especially in more recent history. Within that, my main topic of interest has always been the Third Reich and all that came along with it, including of course the Holocaust and the Second World War. Now you might ask why someone is interested in such depressing things, that is also hard to answer, but I think it has to do with the (my) interest in humans in general (I know that sounds weird). Another aspect is of course the close connection to it because of my nationality.
So considering the Holocaust I'm not sure what exactly you mean. I know what was done, who did it and why (as far as that is explainable and possible to know). That alone is very technical knowledge of course, nobody can seriously claim he could 'feel' the suffering of millions. To get a connection to that it is necessary to know about individuals who were involved, either by book, film or, if possible, personally.
That leads me to:

2) Yes I have been educated about it at school. We read a book about it in elementary school and talked about it afterwards. It also has been brought up during the middle school years (I don't want to go deeper into explaining the German school system), including a discussion with a holocaust survivor, but it has never in these years been a regular topic. In the grammer school years I took history of course, which is not mandatory, there we had a whole semester about Fascism, with the focus on National Socialism.
So I personally had it at school, but I can't say everybody has had it here, which is a shame in my opinion. :(

P.S.: As I wasn't sure about what exactly you wanted to know at point 1), please ask something if it stayed unclear.
 
Approximately 6-7 millions perished from Nazi genocides and purges in Europe. The largest target group by numbers was Jews. Some other groups such as Romani (Gypsies), German mental patients, and german freemasons, surrfer more proportionally. The first group to be slaughtered was mental patients. Most target groups were put through a series of escalating restrictions, oppressions, and concentrations before being systematically killed. They were variable levels of cooperation/resistance for the pograms and purges by German allies and occupied entities and populations.

My public education (many years ago) on the subject was very cursory, not more than a few paragraphs, dealing only with the Jewish part of the holocaust, with more space used for pictures than text.

Most of my information came from private study (as is the case with almost evey subject for me). One bone chilling bit of it is the BBC recreation of the Wansee Conference, something for all historians on that period to see.
 
this is tragic. a swedish humour show made an interview with a former "survivor star" who now wants to become a popstar. they called it "the swedish nazi reference championships". they said 51 words that are connected to nazi germany and she didn´t react. they even dressed her in a treblinka - class of '45 swearshirt.:(

you can see it below. i can translate some parts if you want to.
part one:
http://www.tv4.se/media/ram/tv4SMinazireferens.ram

part two:
http://www.tv4.se/media/ram/tv4SMinazireferens2.ram

and yes, it´s silicone.
 
Originally posted by Richard III
I guess that is part of my point - in this case I don't think a picture is worth 1,000 words. In our (canadian) schools, they show lots of pictures, and everyone sits and looks shocked and feels horrible. But they show pictures of the victims, but say awfully little about the perpetrators, and so it becomes easy to think of Nazis as these guys in strange uniforms in black and white pictures as opposed to, say, the bank clerk at your local branch, or your doctor, or your pharmacist, who starts answers to questions with "I'm not racist, but..."
I agree with that. Especially in our modern days, where pictures of terrible things are all around, a picture is not enough (two aren't either).
 
WWII is my major area of recreational study, so I feel I know a fair amount about it. I know the basic facts, the common names and general stories. I have seen the pictures, and have been to Dachau. I can honestly say that that is a moment I will never forget. Though I am not Jewish in a religious sense, my mother is by birth, and If I am not mistaken, by Nazi laws my children would be subject to the full range of persecution.

So I guess I know what I need to about it. I learned a bit about it in school, and then later touched on it in college. I don't think that the formal education system focuses enough on it. I agree that a picture is not worth a thousand words in this case. Even the most horrible pictures cannot convey the true evil of that occurred. I'm not sure anything can, but pictures alone are not enough. I firmly believe that anyone who comes even remotely close to a concentration camp has a duty as a human being to visit it.
 
Originally posted by knowltok2
WWII is my major area of recreational study, so I feel I know a fair amount about it. I know the basic facts, the common names and general stories. I have seen the pictures, and have been to Dachau. I can honestly say that that is a moment I will never forget. Though I am not Jewish in a religious sense, my mother is by birth, and If I am not mistaken, by Nazi laws my children would be subject to the full range of persecution.

So I guess I know what I need to about it. I learned a bit about it in school, and then later touched on it in college. I don't think that the formal education system focuses enough on it. I agree that a picture is not worth a thousand words in this case. Even the most horrible pictures cannot convey the true evil of that occurred. I'm not sure anything can, but pictures alone are not enough. I firmly believe that anyone who comes even remotely close to a concentration camp has a duty as a human being to visit it.

As part of my history class, me and a few others in my grade, are going to concentration camps next year.
Everyone I talked with says it's very hard, especially for the survivors, if one comes, and especially if it is mixed with stories from the holocaust told by survivors.

My grand mother, for example, does not want to return to auchwiz. She says she is not sure how she will react, and if she will be strong enough. :(
 
Originally posted by IceBlaZe


As part of my history class, me and a few others in my grade, are going to concentration camps next year.
Everyone I talked with says it's very hard, especially for the survivors, if one comes, and especially if it is mixed with stories from the holocaust told by survivors.

My grand mother, for example, does not want to return to auchwiz. She says she is not sure how she will react, and if she will be strong enough. :(

I should clarify that I meant at least once, in case there was any confusion.

Sobering is a good word to describe it, but it goes beyond that. I've been to battlefields in the US where 1,000's were killed in hours, and as moving as those sites are, they don't compare.

Not the right word, but 'enjoy' your trip. :)
 
I was taught much about those dreadfull days whilst at school, I would say I were fairly knowledgeable and I do appreciate the full horrors of what occured in those attrotious camps. As part of my year 9 history course I was shown a rather horrific video about the camps and it has lived in my memory since.
 
Originally posted by knowltok2
I firmly believe that anyone who comes even remotely close to a concentration camp has a duty as a human being to visit it.
Why exactly is that? Don't get me wrong, I won't say it's a bad idea to visit a camp, but I don't really get how that (alone) should educate people. I have to say that I have never been to one, despite living 'remotely close' to them. It's not that I don't want to visit it, but it's not that I want it either. In fact being at the actual place of historic events has never been very interesting for me. Still I would call myself a human being... ;)
From what I've heard from people who visited camps the reactions are quite different. Many are very impressed, but other's are not that much, and I would count myself to them. It's the same with pictures, I don't get such strong feelings from them. For me other things are far more impressive, for example reports that survivors give or also reading actual files and other bureaucratic remnants of that time. These things show the true cruelness of what happened more drastic than a place can, at least to me.
Maybe I have just seen too many pictures and films about it. :(
 
We spent several weeks on WW2 & the Holocaust was a strong mention of it.
The Holocaust is very important in the terms of Western Democracies justification for the total war waged by modern moral standards; autrocity equates justification.
And Germans know about the Holocaust, a lot of it is word of mouth as much as anything. But I don't like the idea that they should be continually bombarded with the sins of their fathers (and my grandfather). The theme should be the evil humanity is capable of towards one another; not the evil the Germans are capable of against Jews.
 
heres what I know about the holocaust


nazi's call it for hollow-cost cause they are stupid. all nazi's should be stripped naked, tied to polls, and cent to israel for the army to use as target practise.

1/3rd of all jews were killed
7 million jews were killed
therefore, I must assume, in 1940, there were 21 million jews, and after the war, 14 million

there are 16 million jews today. mathematacally, there would have been 24 million if not for hitler.

conclusion

get some polls and start looking for nazi's
 
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