What does the American Conservative stand for anymore?

[Cloud_Strife]

 

[Peuri]

Pro-lifers don't break into fertility clinics to implant all the surplus/due for discarding embryo human beings into volunteer human lifeboats, so I kind of don't believe them when they say they believe life starts at conception.

But they do oppose stem cell research, pointing to the fact that they really do believe that an embryo already is a living human being. What other reason would there be for opposing stem cell research? I mean, I guess one could spin it as oppression of women, since women suffer more from MS disease, and it could possibly be treated by stem cells, thus opposing stem cell research is anti-women. Boom. Patriarchy strikes again.

Absolutely not since they are demonstrably pro-death in so many other areas including support for war, opposition to social spending and gun control, and an immigration policy that kills people in the desert etc. etc.

They also value "personal responsibility" for adults. An unborn child (in their conception) is incapable of personal responsibility, by virtue of being inside another human being, and thus murdering it (in their conception) is substantially different from murdering a person who has committed a serious crime.

Again, I'm not "pro life". Abort all the babies for all I care.

 

[Traitorfish]

They also value "personal responsibility" for adults. An unborn child (in their conception) is incapable of personal responsibility, by virtue of being inside another human being, and thus murdering it (in their conception) is substantially different from murdering a person who has committed a serious crime.

"Pro-life" activists tend to present themselves as revering life for its own sake, as something of transcendent and non-negotiable value. If they're in fact arguing for a defined, empirical threshold for when it is and is not permissible to kill people, that undercuts their moral high-ground. It doesn't mean they're wrong, but it matters- at least, we can assume it matters, else they wouldn't act as if it does.

 

[Peuri]

"Pro-life" activists tend to present themselves as revering life for its own sake, as something of transcendent and non-negotiable value. If they're in fact arguing for a defined, empirical threshold for when it is and is not permissible to kill people, that undercuts their moral high-ground. It doesn't mean they're wrong, but it matters- at least, we can assume it matters, else they wouldn't act as if it does.

Certainly there is just simple moral grand standing and cognitive dissonance involved too, but still I find the explanation more plausible that they have a set of values and beliefs that they explicitly say and that they truly believe in, rather than them engaging in some elaborate ploy to keep down the ladies.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Why can't it be both?

 

[Hrothbern]

If I go back in my memory 50-55 years... among my christan community members of that time, there was a strong belief that a child is a gift of God.
From the moment on that a woman is pregnant.

It is similar to the conviction that one should not commit suicide: our life is not ours but a gift of God.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

America isn't a theocracy, even if the gop wishes it was.

 

[Hrothbern]

America isn't a theocracy, even if the gop wishes it was.

Yes
That we are not a theocracy is the rock bottom point.

 

[Peuri]

Why can't it be both?

How many people do you know that are motivated by keeping other people oppressed? Even if that is what their actions amount to, that almost never is their motivation. Unless one truly is a sociopath. People have the need to feel they are virtuous and doing the right thing. Even Hitler though that he was doing the world a favour by exterminating Jews, gays, Slavs and Roma etc. So that is why I find it hard to believe that people who oppose abortion rights are deliberately oppressing women.

America isn't a theocracy, even if the gop wishes it was.

It is not, but that is what distinguishes morality from taste: the wish that other people act out your preferences.

 

[Farm Boy]

Incitement Boy, I answered everything in the post you quoted with your posed questions that function as projected positions. If this is a Farm Boy is unintelligible to the ESL issue, maybe Gori has the patience to translate. I've none with hyperstraw today.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Incitement Boy, I answered everything in the post you quoted with your posed questions that function as projected positions. If this is a Farm Boy is unintelligible to the ESL issue, maybe Gori has the patience to translate. I've none with hyperstraw today.

Enough with the condescension old man, if you can't tolerate someone asking questions maybe you aren't cut out for the marketplace of Ideas and i take issue with anyone judging what someone does to their body, provided they aren't harming themselves.

If a woman, for whatever reason, even if it sounds "nebulous" to you, wants to have abortion that is her right, her body, her bodily choice and her decision. That isn't a failing of humanity and it's presumptous to assume so.

 

[Farm Boy]

Ideas? What I ideas? We don't speak the same language well enough even if we're both fluent to function well enough to share actual ideas if you're asking the questions you're asking in response to that post. I don't care who it's on for that one, let's say it's me. Unless, of course, your rhetorical thrust is somehow on point, thus that an 8 1/2 month pregnancy should be terminable for any non emergency reason at all. At which point a previous qualification comes into play, which is the answer regarding speakers sometimes really is "both."

 

[Patine]

Of course, there is also hypocritical political self-labeling to judge such political activists from. The "Pro-Life" lobby, who rabbit on how "life is sacred," but are, in truth, with only a minority of exceptions, only Anti-Abortion and Anti-Euthanasia, but are pro-war, pro-capital punishment, pro-police impunity, pro-gun rights (guns are solely designed to kill, you know), anti-corporate and environmental regulation (which leads to a lot of death), anti-welfare and government-funded healthcare (more death), anti-Federal money to disaster relief, leaving it to State resources alone (with things like Katrina and Sandy and such, imagine the death), arming and supporting foreign regimes to kill their own people and neighbouring people, and I could go on. With such vile hypocrisy and two-faced standards in the political lobby's tag label and self-identifier, it's a bit hard NOT to suspect sinister ulterior motives and disingenuous agendas, I'm afraid to say.

Pro-lifers don't break into fertility clinics to implant all the surplus/due for discarding embryo human beings into volunteer human lifeboats, so I kind of don't believe them when they say they believe life starts at conception.

But they do oppose stem cell research, pointing to the fact that they really do believe that an embryo already is a living human being. What other reason would there be for opposing stem cell research? I mean, I guess one could spin it as oppression of women, since women suffer more from MS disease, and it could possibly be treated by stem cells, thus opposing stem cell research is anti-women. Boom. Patriarchy strikes again.


They also value "personal responsibility" for adults. An unborn child (in their conception) is incapable of personal responsibility, by virtue of being inside another human being, and thus murdering it (in their conception) is substantially different from murdering a person who has committed a serious crime.

Again, I'm not "pro life". Abort all the babies for all I care.

"Pro-life" activists tend to present themselves as revering life for its own sake, as something of transcendent and non-negotiable value. If they're in fact arguing for a defined, empirical threshold for when it is and is not permissible to kill people, that undercuts their moral high-ground. It doesn't mean they're wrong, but it matters- at least, we can assume it matters, else they wouldn't act as if it does.

As I've already pointed out in the top linked post above (which is mine), there are actually "pro-lifers" in the common political lobby term - there is only an "anti-abortion and anti-euthanasia" lobby. The same people who are vast majority who call themselves "pro-lifers' are pro-deliberate-and-negligent-death on a MASSIVE scale from numerous other sources they'd like to keep legal, going, and commonplace.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Ideas? What I ideas? We don't speak the same language well enough even if we're both fluent to function well enough to share actual ideas if you're asking the questions you're asking in response to that post. I don't care who it's on for that one, let's say it's me. Unless, of course, your rhetorical thrust is somehow on point, thus that an 8 1/2 month pregnancy should be terminable for any non emergency reason at all. At which point a previous qualification comes into play, which is the answer regarding speakers sometimes really is "both."

I believe we should be able to perform post birth abortions, up until the age of 100, in fact in many places, including America, this already happens both formally and informally.

Also I have Dyslexia, so make of that what you will

 

[Peuri]

I believe we should be able to perform post birth abortions, up until the age of 100

Sounds perfectly reasonable. The cut off age really is 103 for me. Just feels right somehow.

 

[Farm Boy]

I believe we should be able to perform post birth abortions, up until the age of 100, in fact in many places, including America, this already happens both formally and informally.

Also I have Dyslexia, so make of that what you will

Happy to have it on me. We have a resident English professor who semi-regularly opines that I don't speak intelligibly. It's why I mentioned he might be happy to translate. Seems to get a kick out of it sometimes.

But yeah, lots of capital punishment people around still. Lots of games to play for the circus.

 

[Broken_Erika]

I believe we should be able to perform post birth abortions, up until the age of 100,

Sounds perfectly reasonable. The cut off age really is 103 for me. Just feels right somehow.

That sounds like a certain early episode of South Park.

 

[Hrothbern]

But yeah, lots of capital punishment people around still.

As long as that exists... people are encouraged to find it "normal" to trespass in the personal sphere of someone else legitimised by dominance.
The abusers and the victims.
That "normal" does not stop at some beating.

 

[Farm Boy]

Slaaneshi skulls for the skull throne.

 

[abradley]

"What does the American Conservative stand for anymore?"

Depends on the individual.