What happened to Europe?

[MilitantSecular]

Europe is trying to acquire new cheap labor, gets mad when cheap labor wants to have the same dignity as native citizens.

Look dude you can be from anywhere Canada, Samoa, Thailand, S.Africa, Boliva, Norway...where and whenever. Personally I don't want them, I would like to help real refugees and perhaps even better help them inside their own culture and own nations but bringing random waves of them in by the thousands and millions isn't going to really help, it will only help the far-right rise

I'm non interventionist and against war, as you have failed to understand

if you must bring them in, then camp them in Hillary's backyard or maybe Cameron or was it that Nicolas Sarkozy NATO guy doing Obama a favor....why not put them in the garden or yard of the politicians that created this mess in the first place, I mean after Libya and the collapse of the nation we saw waves of illegals, refugees, islamists, poor people, jihadists...all heading for Europe

Link to video.
Do you ever speak ill of the Democrat?

 

[Hygro]

Look dude you can be from anywhere Canada, Samoa, Thailand, S.Africa, Boliva, Norway...where and whenever. Personally I don't want them, I would like to help real refugees and perhaps even better help them inside their own culture and own nations but bringing random waves of them in by the thousands and millions isn't going to really help, it will only help the far-right rise

Bring in cheap labor, got a far-right to hate them and keep them in check? So much elegance it almost looks like a conspiracy.

It's like Europe realized if they ever want to catch up to the USA they need their own racial caste exploitation. Too bad we fed them bogus economists By the time they figure it out we'll be vacaying on the moon and telling them they need to be "communists like we are."

 

[Akka]

Europe is trying to acquire new cheap labor

Yeah, Europe totally wanted to have such a wave of migrants

 

[innonimatu]

Yeah, Europe totally wanted to have such a wave of migrants

Yes, it did. Of at least those who see themselves as "leaders of Europe". Angela Merkel invited them in. German industry has been sponsoring papers about how Germany will lack laborers in the near future... It can't get more obvious than that. That it totally backfired politically doesn't mean it wasn't a plot. As it is a plot to reduce the bargaining power of european workers (which could become high if this predicted scarcity of about happened - something I doubt, but there are true believes in that scenario) by bringing in migrants, shifting political power in the precess. Put the plebians in their place...

 

[Agent327]

And, of course, in the development of the plot Angela Merkel, the kingpin of the conspiracy, managed to telepathically influence other countries' leaders to start bombing IS. Hm, didn't that actually happen before though? Oh well, that must have been part of the grand plot as well then. To rearrange nasty chronological facts in the correct order. Because it would be too simple otherwise. Can't have a simple plot, always go look for the more complex and more improbable. Well, I guess it's a good thing this grand conspiracy of Europe has been finally revealed.

(Other minor fact: workers' rights have undergone a steady erosion over the past neo-liberal decades, so they are in no need to 'be put in their place' at the moment. They long have been.)

 

[Hygro]

Yeah, Europe totally wanted to have such a wave of migrants

You wouldn't have them if you didn't want them.

 

[Akka]

You wouldn't have them if you didn't want them.

Not sure if you're tongue-in-cheek or just blind to what actually is happening.

 

[El_Machinae]

Well, South Korea is the country with the biggest proportional investment in R&D and outspends the UK by more than 50% in absolute numbers. A large share of that is either directly invested by Samsung or in public-private partnerships with Samsung. In total, the investment into R&D Samsung profits from rivals the investments into R&D made by the entire UK.

When you consider that, this statistic should not be as surprising as it seems at first glance.

It's still something to note. Samsung isn't a fair comparison, given its focused intensity as a part of South Korea's economy. But the UK is a vastly, vastly larger economy and much wealthier. They're missing something on turning that wealth into compounding growth.

It's a weird thing. There are so many components of knowledge that are good for a society that we assume 'someone else' is handling.

 

[Hygro]

It's still something to note. Samsung isn't a fair comparison, given its focused intensity as a part of South Korea's economy. But the UK is a vastly, vastly larger economy and much wealthier.

"vastly, vastly"?

 

[dutchfire]

Carbon nanotubes were also a bit of a hype with very limited actual applications. Wikipedia lists bicycle parts at the top of the list of current applications of carbon nanotubes. The statistic feels a bit cherrypicked.

 

[El_Machinae]

"vastly, vastly"?

Yes, "vastly, vastly". By which metric would you say they're not much wealthier?

Unless you assume diminishing marginal utility, I guess.

http://archive.sciencewatch.com/dr/cou/2009/09decALL/

But look at where England and South Korea are on this listing of research output. They're not lacking for research. It's the commercialization that's hurting them.

The UK scientific output is much higher, especially when citations are factored in (which is how scientists measure the status of a paper).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Intellectual_Property_Indicators

But look at patents.

 

[Hygro]

PPP GDP/Capita puts UK and SK at near parity.

 

[El_Machinae]

Hence the thread title "what happened to Europe"?

The UK might not be the best example, given their austerity post-2008. But look at the relative differences in the last decade. That's a level of steady convergence you'd not have predicted when looking at 2006 numbers

 

[Mega Tsunami]

Yes, "vastly, vastly". By which metric would you say they're not much wealthier?

Unless you assume diminishing marginal utility, I guess.

http://archive.sciencewatch.com/dr/cou/2009/09decALL/

But look at where England and South Korea are on this listing of research output. They're not lacking for research. It's the commercialization that's hurting them.

The UK scientific output is much higher, especially when citations are factored in (which is how scientists measure the status of a paper).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Intellectual_Property_Indicators

But look at patents.

Maybe this is the answer as to why – our good old EU stopping graduates from working here.
In case you don’t know, James Dyson is a British billionaire who had made his money relatively recently from newer types of vacuum cleaners.
Needless to say, he wants out of the EU.
James Dyson:
The problem with the EU’s free movement of people is that it doesn’t bring Dyson the brilliant boffins he needs. “We’re not allowed to employ them, unless they’re from the EU. At the moment, if we want to hire a foreign engineer, it takes four and a half months to go through the Home Office procedure. It’s crazy.”
He produces another staggering fact. “Sixty per cent of engineering undergraduates at British universities are from outside the EU, and 90 per cent of people doing research in science and engineering at British universities are from outside the EU. And we chuck them out!” He gives a trodden-puppy yelp.
So hiring a low-paid barista from Bratislava is no problem, but a prized physicist from Taiwan is a logistical nightmare. The Government claims that, if a non-EU citizen gets a job within two months of finishing their research, then they can stay here for two years. “The point is that it’s completely mad not to welcome them,” he says, “why on earth would you chuck out researchers with that valuable technology which they then take back to China or Singapore and use it against us?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thin...if-we-leave-the-eu-no-one-will-trade-with-us/

 

[Flying Pig]

We hear this argument a lot, but nobody in the Leave camp has ever been in favour of making it easier for non-EU people to migrate to the UK. A large proportion of non-EU migrants are, bear in mind, brown, Muslim and from non-Anglophone countries. Exactly the same people who normally want to pull up the drawbridge against those are trying to get out of the EU. There's nothing about the EU that makes it more difficult to liberalise those immigration laws. The argument sounds nice, but it really doesn't have anything to stand on.

 

[Kyriakos]

So, if the UK leaves, will english actually be an official language in the EU? (Ireland? Defender of the english tongue ).

 

[REDY]

There is also Malta

 

[Mega Tsunami]

We hear this argument a lot, but nobody in the Leave camp has ever been in favour of making it easier for non-EU people to migrate to the UK. A large proportion of non-EU migrants are, bear in mind, brown, Muslim and from non-Anglophone countries. Exactly the same people who normally want to pull up the drawbridge against those are trying to get out of the EU. There's nothing about the EU that makes it more difficult to liberalise those immigration laws. The argument sounds nice, but it really doesn't have anything to stand on.

There is just about no-one in this country (a few rabid BNPers maybe) who does not want a ‘prized physicist from Taiwan’ come and work here.

 

[El_Machinae]

FP, it might be tougher to liberalize the immigration when using the EU system of governance. Unless the UK specifically can liberalize immigration laws for itself?

 

[Flying Pig]

FP, it might be tougher to liberalize the immigration when using the EU system of governance. Unless the UK specifically can liberalize immigration laws for itself?

Yes, it can. Nothing from the EU says anything about the admission of non-EU citizens, except perhaps asylum seekers (via the ECHR). If we want to make it easier for Taiwanese physicists to come to the UK, we can do that tomorrow. However, the people arguing to get out of the EU are the same as those arguing that we should reduce total immigration by an order of magnitude.