What if your race is the dumbest of them all?

warpus, you are hiding behind relativity
IQ is noisy, fuzzy, biased.. For sure not ideal or perfect. But also far far from random. It, as has been noted more than one time by others, got great predictive quality, at the very least on the large scale. And it is the best we got. And we got to start somewhere. So.. probably we start there where there is the best we got.
 
It's pretty hilarious how you evidently missed the fact that there is an entirely separate article called "Race (human classification)" the first two sentences of which are



the only time the word "human" occurs in the article you linked to is
just more wordplay on your part.....i already addressed definitions responding to gory above (#162)
 
@Terxpahseyton It isn't a good measure of intelligence at all. It's decent at measuring a certain type of intelligence, sure. But overall intelligence, nope.

Look here

IQ tests are 'fundamentally flawed' and using them alone to measure intelligence is a 'fallacy', study finds

Results cast into doubt tests that have been used to link cognitive ability to race, gender and class

The idea that intelligence can be measured by IQ tests alone is a fallacy according to the largest single study into human cognition which found that it comprises of at least three distinct mental traits.

IQ tests have been used for decades to assess intelligence but they are fundamentally flawed because they do not take into accountthe complex nature of the human intellect and its different components, the study found.
 
Then you aren't talking about race. You're talking about something other, distinct phenomenon, which you've labelled raced either because you don't understand the topic, because you're trying to rationalise racist attitudes, or because you're just being willfully difficult.
The way I use the word race is perfectly fine, and is perfectly reasonable.

In the animal kingdom, we do define races (or subspecies, as it seems to be the more "modern" term in the english-speaking world) by the fact that they could interbreed but don't, mainly due to geographical separation, though other reasons can apply, too. The racial distinctions are not generally that useful as they have no predictive power aside from usually being locally separated, but that's precisely why they're useful here, because "race" describes exactly the type of segregated groups that have developed into different phenotypes.

It's interesting though, when I look for the term "race" on the internet, I find tons of denialism, redefinitions, and wordswaps such as race -> subspecies. When I look for the German word "Rasse" almost all results I find describe the word as I use it - and that's after that one random guy tried to establish the Herrenrasse - and some people discussing where the term is useful - which, as I said myself, is mostly limited to grouping people roughly into geographically separated groups - and where it is not - for most other aspects. So maybe it's just again the same problem that we see so often, that America is full of morons who need to change the meaning of words all the time.

In either case, what I said was perfectly reasonable, if the word race is not at all associated with the original concept behind it anymore, then that's tragic and a source of confusion, but it is the right word to describe the concept, and the logic of my argument still stands.
 
Last edited:
So what can bring them together? What has isolated their inheritance? The same thing which created the big races, I'd say. Geographical (relative) isolation on a continental scale.

This isn't true. You don't know what you're talking about. There is very clear evidence of a great deal of historical gene flow. Blue eyes are only 7000 years old but are common enough between Afghanistan and Norway. Various lactose tolerance genes have spread far and wide among herding peoples on many continents.

There has been too little time and far, far too much gene flow for closed geographical populations to form.
 
@Terxpahseyton It isn't a good measure of intelligence at all. It's decent at measuring a certain type of intelligence, sure. But overall intelligence, nope.
Come on, you do not even know what you exactly mean by that. That IQ is not perfect is a low hanging fruit.
Well if you have a bit of background knowledge you may come up with emotional or social intelligence. Fine with me.
So whatever, don't see where this is supposed to lead other than you denying the possibility of the research of genetic intelligence research, which is just a claim out of thin air. The contrary claim, however, is not, not at all.
This isn't true.
You say but can't provide a better alternative. It is true I do not know what I am talking about. I am making assumptions, I have not researched this stuff. But, as said, I am very fond of those assumptions, sound convincing to me. Not in so far as that conditions are ideal, but relatively ideal. It is a messy world, that much I know.
 
Last edited:
I feel confident in my ability to accurately answer this question, given it's uncanny resemblance to the environment I encounter on a daily basis, within which I currently conduct the duties associated with my employment.

SO, LETS SEE:-

1.How do you feel?

Well, you'd be forgiven for imagining that someone in this situation would feel a high sense of superiority and self importance over others,
maybe at first, but I think you'd quickly find it would frequently lead to a sense of huge frustration, and I suppose, even lonliness, how else CAN a person feel in an environment where there's no-one with whom could you have, what you would consider a meaningful conversation with (other than a mirror.) no-one who would share the interests etc.

2.Does it mean anything for you personally?

As above I suppose.

3.Do you consider yourself part of that group?

Irrelevant, I AM part of that group, whether I consider myself to be or not.

4.Do you think people will treat members of your race differently because of it?

How could they not, If they didn't compensate for it when dealing with them i'd have reason to challenge the results of the entire test on the evidence that apparently, EVERY race is stupid.
,
5.Do you think it will have consequences for you as an individual?

6.And was it irresponsible to make that information available?

No, on the contrary, it's essential that if such a gap in intelligence exists, it's acknowledged and taken into consideration when interacting with them (I said taken into consideration, not used as a tool for discrimination.), you could maybe compare it to the fact that you wouldn't speak to a child the same way you would an adult.
 
@Terxpahseyton It isn't a good measure of intelligence at all. It's decent at measuring a certain type of intelligence, sure. But overall intelligence, nope.
Like I said earlier in this thread, the things favored by IQ tests seem to correlate very well with what is generally needed for "raw scientific endeavors", so there may very well be an unintentional correlation, and it's perfectly possible that other types of intelligence, especially those that have to do with "intuition" and similar things that are clearly products of the brain, but do not manifest in you active thinking process.

That seems to be what the study that article is about suggests. Have only quickly skipped through it, but the general idea seems to be that even people with low IQs can show high brain activity, or aptitude in some specialized fields. Well yeah, that is certainly true, but in the end, a lot of that might not even manifest in the physical world, or if it does, may not translate into a trait that is useful for them. So really, while IQ tests do not provide the full picture, calling them "useless" is ridiculous.
 
The power level in this thread is off the charts.

i-6505999ec389c9cb434f204f598809d8-race.jpg


Source.
 
Come on, you do not even know what you exactly mean by that. That IQ is not perfect is a low hanging fruit.
Well if you have a bit of background knowledge you may come up with emotional or social intelligence. Fine with me.
So whatever, don't see where this is supposed to lead other than you denying the possibility of the research of genetic intelligence research, which is just a claim out of thin air. The contrary claim, however, is not, not at all.

You say but can't provide a better alternative. It is true I do not know what I am talking about. I am making assumptions, I have not researched this stuff. But, as said, I am very fond of those assumptions, sound convincing to me. Not in so far as that conditions are ideal, but relatively ideal. It is a messy world, that much I know.

I don't get why you're so defensive of IQ. Accept what the research says and move on *shrug*
 
I get emotional when people insult and abuse the body of scientific fact to achieve political goals. Eugenics and phrenology are pseudoscience. It's the 21st century. Your race realism lost WWII, and it'll lose the next war too.

Why's it mine? What war? What are you talking about?
 
Imagine being so scientifically illiterate you thought blonde people were a species
 
The phrase "Dumb Blonde" comes to mind.
Come to think of it, shouldn't it be Breeds, instead of Races?
 
I don't get why you're so defensive of IQ. Accept what the research says and move on *shrug*
"The" research? You have cited one study, no, one article about a study. About a study that does not show that IQ tests do not do a sufficient job at determining a person's intelligence, but instead states that cognitive ability comes in more forms than are understood as "intelligence" in the concept of the IQ test.

Of course that is true, and as far as I can tell the study does a good job showing that, but it does not deny that IQ tests test a very specific type of intelligence with good accuracy, that sort of intelligence that is required to have an "intelligent" discussion. Because that's the thing, there is "intelligence" as a general concept, which just states that a being is good at navigating through the environment they're in. And then there's "intelligence" in the way it is used in IQ tests.

Two people who score very lowly in IQ tests may very well be intelligent in the way that they can notice another person's state of mind, and react accordingly to gain the most out of the interaction with the other person, but they will never be able to have a deep discussion about a difficult topic. IQ predicts perfectly that the discussion the two people have will not be a great intellectual discourse, and it does not pretend to be able to tell anything about how well they will be able to navigate that conversation.

So really, when the author states that they "have shown that IQ is meaningless too", that's just a ridiculous overstatement. Yes, they have demonstrated that there is more to intelligence than just the form of cognitive ability shown by IQ tests, but that seems to have already been common knowledge anyway (concepts like emtional intelligence date back since way before that study) so I don't really see the big revelation here. IQ tests are still a valid tool for what they do. People should just not overestimate what "IQ" means. It does NOT measure intelligence as in "a person's ability to navigate their surroundings".

/edit: And of course that should be really obvious anyway, as people with high levels au Autism for example tend to show high intelligence, but are utterly incapable of interacting efficiently with their environment to be self-sufficient.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom