What is a billion?

[Tycho Brahe]

I refer you to my link.

Not only does the short list not bother with that whole silly -ard ending, the logic is pure (after million):

Bi (2) is 1,000×1,000^2
Tri (3) is 1,000×1,000^3

And so on and so forth.

The long list skips each -ard ending in its logic progression.

Whats silly about the -ard ending?

 

[Borachio]

I just use 10^n. In my head, at any rate.

But if somebody says a billion is 10^9, or 10^12, and the usage is clear, I'm perfectly fine with either.

 

[Leoreth]

You mean 1e9 and 1e12, I suppose

 

[Borachio]

Depends if you're an engineer. But I'll go with 1e9, if you like. But you see 1^zillion is still 1.

 

[Leoreth]

And 0^0?

 

[Borachio]

Is zero. What's your point?

edit: Oh I see, you mean is it 1? No. It's zero.

 

[strijder20]

Is zero. What's your point?

edit: Oh I see, you mean is it 1? No. It's zero.

Not according to the google Calculator (which says it's 1), and I have learned that it is an indeterminate form.

 

[Andvare]

Both Google and Wikipedia are friendly.

Edit: I prefer the short scale, actually, even though my native languages uses the long one. The short scale just seems more logical. A first for those imperial using colonials.

Does it?

Billion (2) is 1,000,000^2
Trillion (3) is 1,000,000^3
Quadrillion (4) is 1,000,000^4

Skips the arbitrary factor of 1,000 in every step.

The -ard endings are just convenient ways to say thousand [...]. Thousand millions = one milliard etc. So your only objection is the "gut" reaction that -ard forms are silly, which of course is only because you're only familiar with the short scale in the first place.

Next time, do read what I write.
Good job on taking something that was mildly silly, and making it serious and not funny, by insulting me. Great job.

Whats silly about the -ard ending?

Because they differ from the rest of the logical progression.

With the -ion endings, you change the name each time the logical progression, em, progress.

And an ard is inherently silly. Just look at the Ardvark.

Yes, I know it is spelled Aardvark, but then it would work, now would it?

 

[JollyRoger]

A billion is a synonym for exempt from taxes.

 

[Borachio]

Not according to the google Calculator (which says it's 1), and I have learned that it is an indeterminate form.

Yes. No. Wait.

The exponential curve crosses the vertical axis at (0,1) so yes.

So, yes. My mistake. Silly me.

But wait....

 

[strijder20]

Next time, do read what I write.
Good job on taking something that was mildly silly, and making it serious and not funny, by insulting me. Great job.

To be honest, I didn't take it as something 'silly' either.

Because they differ from the rest of the logical progression.

With the -ion endings, you change the name each time the logical progression, em, progress.

Please elaborate? I don't get what you mean.

 

[Andvare]

To be honest, I didn't take it as something 'silly' either.

Arguing which naming tradition is inherently better is not silly? Really?
I find it silly, stupid even. But I'm bored, and when I'm bored, I do stupid things.

Please elaborate? I don't get what you mean.

With the short scale, each time the name change, i.e. going from billion to trillion, the logic progression progress.

But when you have the long scale, the name change outside of the logical progression. When you go from billion to billiard, the name have changed, but there is no logical progression, other than saying that the -ard ending is a way to say times 1000, but then this is an add-on to the logical progression, and not as simple as just a mathematical progression.


Also, when counting numbers higher than you would just recognize, with the short scale, you would just have to see how many times 1000 the number is, to name it, while with the long scale, you would have to see how many times 1000000 the number is, and then see if it had an -ard or an -ion ending.

 

[strijder20]

Arguing which naming tradition is inherently better is not silly? Really?
I find it silly, stupid even. But I'm bored, and when I'm bored, I do stupid things.

Yes, all right, it's silly this whole thread is.

With the short scale, each time the name change, i.e. going from billion to trillion, the logic progression progress.

But when you have the long scale, the name change outside of the logical progression. When you go from billion to billiard, the name have changed, but there is no logical progression, other than saying that the -ard ending is a way to say times 1000, but then this is an add-on to the logical progression, and not as simple as just a mathematical progression.

I see changing the suffix as equal to changing the prefix, actually.
It's hard to tell how hard it is to mind the -ion or -ard, because I'm used to it and thus automatically multiply by 1000 when I see the latter.
Long count also has the advantage of having to learn less prefixes (just like we didn't give every individual number a name, but only have 'unique' names up to 12 (in English) - after that we give the numbers logical names, because it'd be a pain to learn all the numbers otherwise).


[/QUOTE]Also, when counting numbers higher than you would just recognize, with the short scale, you would just have to see how many times 1000 the number is, to name it, while with the long scale, you would have to see how many times 1000000 the number is, and then see if it had an -ard or an -ion ending.[/QUOTE]

As I said, I have no trouble with it having grown up with the system.
(Don't forget that the number of calculations is still equal as you still have to add *1000 when using short count)

 

[Borachio]

SI units too progress in terms of 10^3 multiples (apart from centimetre and decilitre which are plain silly and not SI, anyway).

Then it fits in nicely with Kilo, Mega, Giga and Tera, and Pico and stuff. Yes? No?

 

[strijder20]

SI units too progress in terms of 10^3 multiples (apart from centimetre and decilitre which are plain silly and not SI, anyway).

Then it fits in nicely with Kilo, Mega, Giga and Tera, and Pico and stuff. Yes? No?

Nah, not really.

Kilo = Thousand

Mega = Million

Giga = Milliard

Terra = Trillion

You don't need the short count for it to fit in.

Also, how are centi and deci plain silly? They're very often needed because of the common quantities/lengths they describe. Calling a ruler 30 centimetres is just easier to grasp than calling it 300 millimetres.

 

[Core Imposter]

It's all relative.

 

[Leoreth]

Next time, do read what I write.
Good job on taking something that was mildly silly, and making it serious and not funny, by insulting me. Great job.

Sorry, I had missed your earlier comment. Your previous post also seemed perfectly serious to me. So I responded in an equally serious manner.

I don't know why you feel offended. I just pointed out that one of your arguments at least equally applies to the alternative and your other argument is subjective. Is it offensive to say an argument is subjective? At least I didn't want to offend you.

 

[Andvare]

Mega = Million

Giga = Milliard

Terra = Trillion

SEE! Completely ruins EVERYTHING!
Yes, using the long scale is the cause for the global warming, and not, as have been reported, a lack of pirates in the Caribbean sea.

No, I don't have OCD, why do you ask?




On another note, there are plenty other prefix in use. Large scale brewers, for example, use hectolitres AFAIK (100L).

Now we are talking about units, the reason why the L for litre is written as a capital letter, is because one (1) often looks like a lower case L when written in hand.
Your completely useless info for the day.

 

[Andvare]

Sorry, I had missed your earlier comment. Your previous post also seemed perfectly serious to me. So I responded in an equally serious manner.

I don't know why you feel offended. I just pointed out that one of your arguments at least equally applies to the alternative and your other argument is subjective. Is it offensive to say an argument is subjective? At least I didn't want to offend you.

Yes!

(of course not) You just said that my view was an illogical gut feeling, and I took that as you implied that the long scale were the only reasonable logical choice. And accusing me of not understanding the other scale, when that is the one I usually use.

Sorry if I flew of the handle a bit too early.

 

[Borachio]

It's highly entertaining how anyone manages to talk even remotely sensibly about this subject. I'm beginning to lose interest.