onejayhawk
Afflicted with reason
Buddy Love in the Nutty Professor.
Yes it is. The actions of the other person have no relevence.
J
What is love?
- Thread starter Hygro
- Start date
Buddy Love in the Nutty Professor.
Yes it is. The actions of the other person have no relevence.
J
Zack
99% hot gas
Then why do you love them in the first place?
What if you find out someone you love has secretly been a serial killer the whole time? Do you still "put their needs above your own"?
onejayhawk
Afflicted with reason
You do or you do not. There is no why.
You love them anyway. Putting their needs first does not mean enabling their destructive behavior or sheltering them from the consequences. You could call the police and it would still be consistent.
J
Zack
99% hot gas
So it's just a random occurrence? There's absolutely no reason why you love [person you love]?
It is putting society's "needs" first. You call the police because the person you love is a danger to society first, and anything else is secondary, unless you're saying you are more concerned with this person's wellbeing than with the death they cause.
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
I mean serial killer is pretty hardcore but I'd want my neighbors to value family over society.
timtofly
One Day
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What is unconditional then? I think the overwhelming use of Love throughout history has been unconditional. Do you have any proof that it is not?
Zack
99% hot gas
What is that supposed to even mean? What part of my post are you addressing? I feel like you're making a loaded statement to imply that I'm callous or something.
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
Well, like I said, serial killer is going pretty far and you can't let your loved one go on and kill folk but where do you draw the line between protecting family because family and protecting society because society?
Zack
99% hot gas
The answer, as always - it depends. We weren't talking about choosing one or the other, though, but rather which was the bigger motivator. I questioned whether you turn in your lover / serial killer to the police primarily for her wellbeing, or if it's because you don't want more people to die. I should have gone further and asked whether if it was because you were scared. Basically I was challenging his assertion that you always put their needs first.
timtofly
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How does "killing people" become a need? There are some desires that socially should never be acceptable and "loving" a person is part of getting that person to see the error of their ways.
Conflating chemical dependency or harmful addictions with Love, does not create a healthy society, but one where no one knows boundaries and can only lead to more suffering, not less.
When one defines love as a personal desire that starts with an unconscious attraction, and develops into a personal choice, the remaining desire is love. The choice comes when one decides to love another no matter what happens to themself. What happens when one no longer desires to love? The choice to stop loving is the last part left in the attraction.
Conflating chemical dependency or harmful addictions with Love, does not create a healthy society, but one where no one knows boundaries and can only lead to more suffering, not less.
When one defines love as a personal desire that starts with an unconscious attraction, and develops into a personal choice, the remaining desire is love. The choice comes when one decides to love another no matter what happens to themself. What happens when one no longer desires to love? The choice to stop loving is the last part left in the attraction.
I think it's wrong to say that the "destructive" kinds of love aren't "real love". They certainly are. Love is not about wanting what's best for your loved one regardless of what happens to yourself. Or rather, that is a type of love, usually associated with parents. But love can also be possessive, destructive, thoroughly unhealthy and still be love. It's a complicated feeling!
timtofly
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Are you saying that love is the desire to change another person? Because being possessive, destructive, and anything that changes how another person views themselves, does not seem to be love. It is an attraction that does not let the other person be who they are, but an attraction for one's own personal desire. That is a strong emotional force, but is it love, or self love. I am not denying self love. But self love hardly is mutual unless the other person is just as self loving, and then it would seem to fall apart unless the net gain in the relationship outweighed breaking off the relationship.
One can love self. One can even love things. Love is complicated. Are we talking about loving other people, or other types of love?
You would be correct in the point that most emotions are unconscious chemical reactions, but at some point they have to be rationalized and acted upon in a conscious manner. That is the ability to choose how to react to such unconscious actions.
onejayhawk
Afflicted with reason
Let's not confuse love with like. I might say I love pizza, but that is an expression not reality.
It gets confusing when a desire to protect becomes smothering or when a desire to help enables destructive behavior.
J
It gets confusing when a desire to protect becomes smothering or when a desire to help enables destructive behavior.
J
Love captures you; it stirs your brain chemistry to create an almost uncontrollable desire to be with, to touch, to dream about, to be near, to serve, one's beloved. It is close to madness and when love is at a high intensity, reason has no power over it.
onejayhawk
Afflicted with reason
I think love and what you are talking about are distinct, though related things. Earlier in the thread we discussed eros vs philia. You describe the passion, but it is not something that would pull you to a hospital bed or a nursing home.
J
Yes, I was describing the quality of love usually between people since that has been much of the conversation.
Love is a continuum of emotion that gets less selfish and less rational and more intense as it moves towards its better end. Any/all of the various types of love discussed (including nursing care) have a place on the continuum even if we wouldn't put them in the same order or in the same place.
I would take it one step further, though, and add that music, art, craftsmanship and similar activities can all be loved just like, or more so, than people. The best expressions of love are all about giving yourself to something and ignoring the cost to oneself. Artists of all sorts are not immune from sacrificing themselves for what they do.
onejayhawk
Afflicted with reason
I would take the other tack. Love is the constant across a range of hormonal conditions.
You may have a point about loving art. Indeed, that may be what makes it art rather than craft.
J
I do not know what that (bolded) means. Please elaborate.
onejayhawk
Afflicted with reason
You said, "Love is a continuum of emotion." I am saying love is the constant in the continuum.
J
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