What other Civs would you like to see added to DoC

[KeeperOT7Keys]

I'm worried about how the Kushans would affect Indian development. They were proceeded by the Greeks who were proceded by the Maurya and followed by the Gupta. The Maurya and Gupta were both Indian. Would the Kushans last 300 years and then collapse back into India?

Also -- the dates on those UHVs for the Kushans are too late, but I like the other parts of the outline.

I think India needs more chaos tbh.
Currently it's pretty common to see India going full Pala Empire, defeating Mughals, and discovering new world before Europeans. Also even if Kushan can't manage to conquer India, they can still fill the area in Central Asia with a role of trade chokepoint, which is nice enough.

 

[mccp77]

I think India needs more chaos tbh.
Currently it's pretty common to see India going full Pala Empire, defeating Mughals, and discovering new world before Europeans. Also even if Kushan can't manage to conquer India, they can still fill the area in Central Asia with a role of trade chokepoint, which is nice enough.

I think the role of trade choke point is better represented by the Turks.

The question to be answered here is do we think a Kushan civ is practical? My answer is no, not without screwing India. As for India vs. the Mughals, Hindu vs Muslim invaders is a very different struggle than Indians vs. Kushans. India vs Mughals isn't just a struggle for territory, it's a struggle for culture and identity.

Now, all of that said, if a Kushan civ is included I'd rather be in the loop than out even though I oppose their inclusion. In that spirit, here is my two cents: I believe they need to spawn early than their historical spawn date. Maybe spawn them as Bactria in 250BC even though Bactria was Greek ethnically because 300 years from 30BC to 300AD is not enough turns to make the Kushans a viable civilization during that period.

 

[DC123456789]

I think the role of trade choke point is better represented by the Turks.

The question to be answered here is do we think a Kushan civ is practical? My answer is no, not without screwing India. As for India vs. the Mughals, Hindu vs Muslim invaders is a very different struggle than Indians vs. Kushans. India vs Mughals isn't just a struggle for territory, it's a struggle for culture and identity.

Now, all of that said, if a Kushan civ is included I'd rather be in the loop than out even though I oppose their inclusion. In that spirit, here is my two cents: I believe they need to spawn early than their historical spawn date. Maybe spawn them as Bactria in 250BC even though Bactria was Greek ethnically because 300 years from 30BC to 300AD is not enough turns to make the Kushans a viable civilization during that period.

It would probably make more sense to spawn them as the Tocharians if you want them early, as the Kushans most likely originated there.

The Kushans would also generally fill the role of the invader empires that established themselves in Afghanistan and northern India throughout much of that period, including the Sakas and Hepthalites.

 

[Ani Taneen]

It could be said that the Kushan pose a greater threat to a Persian-Sassanian presence than just India.

Anyways I got a rough draft on the other thread:

Okay so let me move the discussion here to more concrete terms:

Kushana Empire
Start: 155 BCE in Tamir Basin
UU: Yabgu Guard, a Cataphrac Horse Archer
UB: Arrow Tower (replaces the wall)
UP: Cultural Exchange Your missionaries increase an empire's favor to you on a successful conversion. The Silk Road company provides +1 for every non-state religion in your cities.
UHV 1: Yuehzi Migrantion Build a Palace in a Bactrian city by 30 CE
UHV 2: The Council of Kanishka Spread Bhuddism to 25% of the world by 135 CE
UHV 3: Heart Of Trade Have Open Borders with a civ in Europe, Africa, and East Asia by 250 CE.

The Idea is to combine the Kushan With the Yuehzi migration from the tamir basin. To be honest if the UP stays the same, then the UHV 2 could ask you to convert empires, since your missionaries increase the relationship

 

[Crimean Lord]

I've allready written about spreading conseption "from Persia to Iran" to RUSSIA...
In 860 - we have RUS's State and Kiev as the capital of this civilization (may be it will be AI civ - like Celts or Seljuks)
But in the 1460 (may be ealier) there will RUSSIA (Moscow's State), also I want to propose alternative "UHV":
1. "Prison of the nations" (control St. Peterburg, Warsaw, Kiev, Tiflis, Samarkand and Vladivostok) by 1860
2. "RED EMPIRE" (NO western civ's vassals in Asia and Africa in 1985; RUSSIA has at least 3 communistic vassals in 1985)
3. "PetroDollars" (earn at least 5000 gold using trading of resourses in the diplomacy screen)

 

[soul-breathing]

I've allready written about spreading conseption "from Persia to Iran" to RUSSIA...
In 860 - we have RUS's State and Kiev as the capital of this civilization (may be it will be AI civ - like Celts or Seljuks)
But in the 1460 (may be ealier) there will RUSSIA (Moscow's State), also I want to propose alternative "UHV":
1. "Prison of the nations" (control St. Peterburg, Warsaw, Kiev, Tiflis, Samarkand and Vladivostok) by 1860
2. "RED EMPIRE" (NO western civ's vassals in Asia and Africa in 1985; RUSSIA has at least 3 communistic vassals in 1985)
3. "PetroDollars" (earn at least 5000 gold using trading of resourses in the diplomacy screen)

Good idea, the UHVs could be developed. Now the Russia from 860 to 1950, it' too long, 14XX is a good start year.

 

[mccp77]

Good idea, the UHVs could be developed. Now the Russia from 860 to 1950, it' too long, 14XX is a good start year.

I like this idea, but only if they can't exist contemporaneously. Ie -- Muscovy won't spawn if the Mongols don't kill Kievan Rus.

 

[soul-breathing]

I like this idea, but only if they can't exist contemporaneously. Ie -- Muscovy won't spawn if the Mongols don't kill Kievan Rus.

Of course, just like Aztec and Mexico.

 

[Kojinesha]

I'd love to see a modern Israeli civilization. Before it spawns, perhaps have some resources appear around Jerusalem, like how the fish spawn near the dutch core before the dutch do. Add an additional food resource and a production, and I think it would be okay as a starting point.

Spawn in 1946. Flip entire Levant, or with bigger map, flip just Jerusalem and an extra city or two? Then make rest of Levant historical. Madagascar should be contested.
UU: Shayetet. Replaces marine. Extra strength and/or first strikes?
UB: Knesset. Replaces palace. Adds 10 or 15 % production and commerce to city to help make Jerusalem a good city? Maybe just extra happiness or something. Maybe military production bonus so they can train troops relatively fast with just one city?
UP: I actually have no idea. Can run outdated civics with no stability penalty - to help run as a Jewish state? E.g. Run organized religion in the modern era with modern civics with no stability hit.

UHV 1: From the Nile to the Euphrates: Control Egypt, the Levant and Mesopotamia in 1967? Perhaps too early, but represents the six day war. Could always pick a different war, but the six day war had the biggest territorial change to modern Israel. Maybe 1982? 1946 to 1967 is only 23 turns to gain all that territory.
UHV 2: (Insert name here) Spread Judaism to x amount of the world's population by 2000?
UHV 3: Samson option: Control x amount of tactical nukes and ICBMs by 2015 or whatever year.

Or have friendly relations with x amount of countries by whatever date as a UHV.

 

[Ani Taneen]

I'd love to see a modern Israeli civilization. Before it spawns, perhaps have some resources appear around Jerusalem, like how the fish spawn near the dutch core before the dutch do. Add an additional food resource and a production, and I think it would be okay as a starting point...

As I've stated before (which I have quoted below), the one city challenge does not work as well with Jerusalem as it does with other civs. But your proposal goes an extra mile. You are proposing an a-historical start.

"Flip entire Levant, or with bigger map, flip just Jerusalem and an extra city or two? Then make rest of Levant historical."

WHAT?
Look I'm not gonna get into a discussion of Israeli history, thats not the point here. The point is that the problem lies with the map. One city challenges are fun in normal civ 4, because in normal civ 4, the cities can grow with unchallenged tiles all around them. In this game it is rare to have a city work all 20 tiles around it. And the solution is not "israel conquers lebanon in the Milkhemet Ha'Atzma'ut"

If you want a Jewish civ, again, see below where I propose the Kuzari be brought into the game (also Leoreth agrees that they are a good fit). Changes have been made to make a Jewish Poland Viable and I haven't tried Jewish Ethiopia, but I'd argue that that should be viable too.

Okay so I have two major problems with the inclusion of a Judean civ. 1) The map. As it stands the area around Jerusalem is significantly tiny. Even under a proposed G.E.M., the city or civ would need substantial support in order for it to produce things (that is to say, for the game to be fun). and 2) The game play. Judea, or to be exact, Yerushalem, would be a One City Challenge. Sure you could capture Sur to the north and maybe settle Sinai. But as a civ you are essentially on the same time scale in-game as Babylon, and will likely loose to the Persians, Greeks, Roman, Byzantine, or Arab Spawns. And if you are alive 5 turns before the Persian spawn, you are already in alternate history land. Maybe you can resurface for 10 turns for the Hasmonean Dynasty, but even Herod was a Roman Vassal. So, no, WE "need Judaea / Israel in this game." But the GAME does not need nor encourages them to exist. That is the sad reality here.

If you want a Jewish Civ, I propose the Khazar. That civ spawns a few turns before the Arabs, has a core area (caucus mountains) that is usually not populated, and already has an easy to identify UHV (Such as control the Pontic–Caspian steppe, and have no barbarians there). The civ will be in conflict with the AI vikings & (I'd argue) AI Arabs & Byzantines. Heck, there is a Civ 4 mod for them: HERE (though in my opinion the art is a bit weak).

Here is my rough draft for them:
UU: Arsiyah (Cavalry)
UB: Qaghan Beg (lit. the house of the Qaghan. According to Ahmad Ibn Fadlan, the Khazars were led by two simutinious leaders, a Malik/Melekh who was in charge of legislative authority and trade, and the Qaghan (Khagan). The Qaghan was a spiritual and military leader who ruled from his semi-nomadic home or beg. Therefore the Qaghan Beg easily replaces the courthouse, stables, or Barracks)

Power: Power of Correspondence, each temple produces an extra trade route. -50% unhappiness from non-state religions

UHV 1: Control X cities by 750 CE
UHV 2: Have X commerce in your capital by 950 CE
UHV 3: Build a Jewish Academy in Kiev

 

[Kojinesha]

All right, sorry.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Madagascar should be contested.

Whose core should it become?

 

[Kojinesha]

Whose core should it become?

Oh you're right.

 

[Force44]

A jewish civilization would be interesting to play if there was some way to play with foreign cities in which you have a minority stake culture.

That way the diaspora could be represented (mimicking history).
And the burdens of a one city challenge would be alleviated (providing more interesting gameplay).

I imagine playing with minority stake culture would strike at the heart of civ 4s and DoCs gameplay though.

 

[Darnokthemage]

I disagree with that as well. I remember back in Civ2, struggling for world domination in the Modern Age, and even competing for the space against, against Mongol, Aztec, and Celtic AI opponents. That was fun. Boadicea and Montezuma each beat me to Alpha Centauri at least once each in my earlier games, in fact. But, maybe we're at a disagreement on these issues there.

Well that's not what this mod is about, you should play vanilla if you want that experience.

 

[Darnokthemage]

Gotta ask, what is the general consensous about Sweden in the mod? Is it a planned civ for the future or inpossible due to map? And what would the civs uu and historic goals be?

 

[1SDANi]

Gotta ask, what is the general consensous about Sweden in the mod? Is it a planned civ for the future or inpossible due to map? And what would the civs uu and historic goals be?

I thought the Vikings turn into Sweden in the late game?

 

[Patine]

I thought the Vikings turn into Sweden in the late game?

There are four modern nations (Sweden, Denmark, Norway, and Iceland) and two self-governing dependencies (Greenland and the Faroe Islands) directly descended from the Vikings, not just Sweden. But I'm not yet clear how this plays out in game.

 

[mccp77]

There are four modern nations (Sweden, Denmark, Norway, and Iceland) and two self-governing dependencies (Greenland and the Faroe Islands) directly descended from the Vikings, not just Sweden. But I'm not yet clear how this plays out in game.

Last I heard it was planned but not a priority. Vikings would become Denmark when Sweden spawns.

 

[merijn_v1]

I got al playable version of Sweden locally. I plan to release it after the changes to the spawn mechanics.