What purpose does crime serve?

[civ_king]

I don't really see it doing anything,
can we have criminal events like kidnapping, extortion, assassinations (like the governor event), smuggling and possibly drug dealing, etc...?

 

[Valkrionn]

Actually, there used to be. They were tied to the 'Rat-Catchers Guild'... Could be entertaining sometimes, usually not.

 

[civ_king]

I know that, I just desperately want it to have a purpose and not be completely useless

 

[Vehem]

I know that, I just desperately want it to have a purpose and not be completely useless

It's going to be tied to the Security/Espionage setup if I ever get around to it. Basically the crime rate is a variable negative influence on your security. High crime rates lead to easier access to enemy espionage.

Other than that, I'd like to have more ways of it being influenced (both positive and negative), with particularly high values costing commerce through corruption. Events would also be a nice tie-in, but these would primarily be negative events as a "punishment" for letting the crime rate get too high (unless you're following certain civics/religions that mean you rely upon a high degree of "flexibility" - possibly even using criminals to deal with criminals...)

 

[Honor]

I think that means we'd need some effective mechanisms to fight crime as well (buildings and stuff).

 

[civ_king]

we already do... that's part of my irritation, weapons for a war that will never be fought

 

[Honor]

Oh, I must pay more attention from now on

 

[TheJopa]

It's going to be tied to the Security/Espionage setup if I ever get around to it. Basically the crime rate is a variable negative influence on your security. High crime rates lead to easier access to enemy espionage.

Other than that, I'd like to have more ways of it being influenced (both positive and negative), with particularly high values costing commerce through corruption. Events would also be a nice tie-in, but these would primarily be negative events as a "punishment" for letting the crime rate get too high (unless you're following certain civics/religions that mean you rely upon a high degree of "flexibility" - possibly even using criminals to deal with criminals...)

I agree that high levels of crime could/should cause unhappiness and cost money. And there should be more active ways of stopping crime:

Building courthouses and dungeons and maybe some extra stuff (gallows...)
Keeping happiness up (Unhappy city=High Crime)
Garrisoning city with troops
Special stuff like inquisition...
And of course keeping gambling houses etc. away from city

Events that cause crime should be negative, but some should have options that reduce crime rate and therefore reduce chance of crime reoccurring, at the high costs (either gold, or happiness)

Some civics should also effect this: Social order, for example.

 

[zup]

But if you implement nastiness related to crime, include some methods of using high crime rates (both domestic and foreign) for an advantage against other civs. Funding weapons smuggling to dissidents for example. Or perhaps if running CoE, one could make profit out of the criminal activity. Sort of an alternative method of taxation.

 

[Bitwise]

At the moment crime is a very background mechanic, causing crime events to happen where there's the most crime. But making crime a more strategic element would be a good way to make CoE attractive.

 

[Deon]

I'd love to see the crime merged with "revolutions" modcomp. However I am afraid it's not possible in a near future .

 

[Jean Elcard]

I'd love to see the crime merged with "revolutions" modcomp. However I am afraid it's not possible in a near future .

The crime mechanic really seems very similar to what Revolutuions is doing. To keep/introduce both is probably not a good idea.

 

[Tarquelne]

The crime mechanic really seems very similar to what Revolutuions is doing. To keep/introduce both is probably not a good idea.

At first I was surprised to see you write that. But I guess anything covered by "crime" can be reflected via the basic revolution mechanics. A CoE op. for example causing X unrest and Y unhappiness, with the unhappiness and unrest possibly leading to other things.

 

[Deon]

The crime mechanic really seems very similar to what Revolutuions is doing. To keep/introduce both is probably not a good idea.

I don't get it. How it is bad to have "both" as a single mechanic? I remember there was a revolutions attempt on ffh. And my main idea that revolutioners and thugs are not the same people. Mafia wants everything to stay stable so they could operate on the background, revolutioners want to act directly so these are 2 sides of a coin, but they are tied (i.e. higher the crime, easier to create unrest/assasinate leader etc.).

 

[Vehem]

At first I was surprised to see you write that. But I guess anything covered by "crime" can be reflected via the basic revolution mechanics. A CoE op. for example causing X unrest and Y unhappiness, with the unhappiness and unrest possibly leading to other things.

Aye - the crime rate won't be causing unhappiness, just corruption. Better to just allow Revolutions to use Crime Rate as a value to inspect as part of stability than to emulate the same effects that Revolutions has.

====

The events, corruption and espionage make crime an interesting enough thing to deal with - revolutions can handle unhappiness/uprisings.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

It would be interesting if you could have the option of playing arround with said coin.
As said before, the more crime is present the greater chance of organised sindicats poping up.
Allowing these sindicats to grow might be detremental to your economy, but by turning a blind eye you could ensure that they handle any trouble maker that would attempt any radical change.
Also, with COE I can even see a civilisation using esponage to found organised crime organisations in foregin lands in order to make them unstable. An example of this was seen in WW2 in sicily.
Keeping a subtile balance betwen allowing to much crime (thus making your cities full of anger and disent) and allowing to little of it (thus allowing your people to concentrate less on self preservation and coruption and more on politics) could be made into a sutable mechanic that could potentialy be extremely fun.

 

[Jean Elcard]

My comment above was hacked down with not enough thinking beforehand, but it turned out you've got me anyway. Some of the suggestions in this thread for possible effects of crime reminded me of the effects of Revolutions. What I meant was, that's not necessary to blow up the crime system to the level of Revolutions. We would have two too similar game mechanics at the end. To keep crime as a subsystem for Revolutions is another thing though.

 

[zup]

Too low crime and you have no assassins' guild to deal with revolution leaders. High crime and for a little coin (relatively little, national stability is invaluable) the revolution leaders just...vanish.

 

[Mylon]

What if crime was a modifer to maintenance? At 50 crime, the city costs 50% more to maintain.

How this melds with courthouses and such is questionable though... I'd rather the formula be base * additive (summed) * reductions (indvidual) - Otherwise building a gambling house costs much more money, percentage wise, for a city with a courthouse than a city without. And this formula would also allow for any number of -% reduction buildings.

But yes, crime as +% maintenance.

 

[xienwolf]

100 * 105% * 110% * 90% < 100 * 115% * 90% < 100 * 105%


Which numbers are you using to decide it comes out better to sum the bonuses, then apply the penalties individually? Because it is not universally the case.