What Video Games Have You Been Playing #15: Computer not on fire yet? Better add more mods!

[Senethro]

I absolutely refuse to stand down from the idea that teaching is NOT done by giving the pupil all the answers and forcing them to select them without thinking, understanding or giving room for experimentation or learning. But instead through allowing room for controlled experimentation in a safe and reasonable environment. The phrase "familiarize your self with these controls and proceed to the objective when you are comfortable" comes to mind. If you disagree that shows you fundamentally lack understanding of both education and game design.

This being said given that we have reached an impasse from which no reasonable progress can be made I suggest we draw the line here and go our separate ways.

Given an average spread of humans on any average task, 1/3rd teaches themselves, 1/3rd needs to be shown how to do it and 1/3rd needs careful handholding. Once able to independently complete the task, all groups will be able to self-improve.

Your mistake is to prioritize the first group with your tutorial, when in fact they don't need any tutorial at all. You need to get the last group to the completion point.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

to anyone who is interested. I'm releasing the combat part of my skyrim mod in a few days, I'll be notifying you guys I worked on that mf like crazy and am rly glad to be finally done. perk mod is coming along swell, too. it's good because I finally want to be done, play some, and then move on to another project.

still playing sekiro like a mother trucker. i'm not good, but not letting that stop me either. a few days ago I did O'rin and spent literal 5 hours running up to her and then dieing, like half of my runs ended in the first 10 seconds. then I gave up, returned 15 minutes later and did the whole encounter without taking a single hit of damage. I felt like a superhuman. I did the same yesterday with one of the snake eyes, what a godly freaking game. emotional rollercoaster crazy ass rhythm game monster. the more I play it the more convinved I get it's one of the greatest in its medium.. the artwork, the level designs, the good damn buddhas, the weird items and NPCs, the whole thing is just gorgeous and intricate. this is one game where I really take my time and make it worth it. i might not be done with it til 2021, I still only have like 35% completed.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

Given an average spread of humans on any average task, 1/3rd teaches themselves, 1/3rd needs to be shown how to do it and 1/3rd needs careful handholding. Once able to independently complete the task, all groups will be able to self-improve.

Your mistake is to prioritize the first group with your tutorial, when in fact they don't need any tutorial at all. You need to get the last group to the completion point.

Even assuming that your numbers are right, which they can't reasonably be as people are not generally morons, especially not people who tend to pick up games of that style, and assuming that the system of playing the game is not trivially simple to master anyway (seriously, you have click to move, 2 moves per turn, cover, how hard can it be) that would still leave your argument empty and hollow due to the simple fact that any system which prioritizes 1/3 of your customers at the expense of frustrating the other 2/3 is not a good one.


Either way it is irrelevant because that method of teaching won't benefit anyone. Least of all the ones that need extra care. It simply is one thing to accommodate your teaching method to the worst students you have and quite another to give up on the concept of teaching altogether in favor of mindless dictation of test results.

The later method literally transfers no knowledge, no applicable skills or information beyond how to obey orders. And thus it is worse than useless. It is actively detrimental. Now, you seem to think I am against all forms of handholding. That is not correct. What I am saying is that there is a massive difference between careful handholding and hamfisted handholding. The former can work just fine and is seen in games like UFO Aftermath or Portal 2. There you still have very specific things you need to do (move to objective, look up etc.) but the player is given room to experiment with the controls in his own time and the objective is there as a test of that understanding as opposed to a click to proceed button.

The hallmark of a good tutorial is that it contains all the elements of a good educational project. You have your demonstration of applicable skills (your controls are explained), room for students to experiment with those skills so as to become comfortable with using them and finally a test of their mastery of the subject (the objective).

The XCOM 2 tutorial offers very little of that. It arguably does have a demonstration of what you can do with your units. But that's it. It does not offer you the time or space to experiment and get familiar with the skills you are supposedly being taught. And in the end it has no test of those skills unless you consider a multiple choice test with only one option testing. Thus the player leaves it with a very vague idea of what the game is about, no practice at playing it (the most vital part of any tutorial) and no idea why he had to do the things he did other than plot. He gains no understanding of the subject matter and his first real test is the first real mission which he will inevitably struggle through.

In a more complex strategy game that sort of tutorial would literally have been disastrous to new players.

 

[Birdjaguar]

to anyone who is interested. I'm releasing the combat part of my skyrim mod in a few days, I'll be notifying you guys I worked on that mf like crazy and am rly glad to be finally done. perk mod is coming along swell, too. it's good because I finally want to be done, play some, and then move on to another project.

still playing sekiro like a mother trucker. i'm not good, but not letting that stop me either. a few days ago I did O'rin and spent literal 5 hours running up to her and then dieing, like half of my runs ended in the first 10 seconds. then I gave up, returned 15 minutes later and did the whole encounter without taking a single hit of damage. I felt like a superhuman. I did the same yesterday with one of the snake eyes, what a godly freaking game. emotional rollercoaster crazy ass rhythm game monster. the more I play it the more convinved I get it's one of the greatest in its medium.. the artwork, the level designs, the good damn buddhas, the weird items and NPCs, the whole thing is just gorgeous and intricate. this is one game where I really take my time and make it worth it. i might not be done with it til 2021, I still only have like 35% completed.

Tell me more about how the game play works. Skills, gear, progression etc.

 

[Ajidica]

In the Witcher 3, I found out that putting points into Active Shield is very cool. If enemies hit the quen barrier, your health gets restored. Then if you release it with Exploding Shield they all fall over so you can hit them with the sword.

Sirens are still very annoying though.

Aard and crossbows are your friends for Sirens.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

Tell me more about how the game play works. Skills, gear, progression etc.

are you talking about my mod or Sekiro? I assume the former

I just got done doing a ~15 minute video on it where I explain it all in-depth. what I have planned for skills/crafting/perks/progression I would prefer to keep secret for just a little bit longer, because that part is coming out right after. I can however tell you in private!

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

Aard and crossbows are your friends for Sirens.

I've been using the crossbow but I can never seem to hit the sirens. I didn't realize about aard though.

During one of the Skellige quests I got a horn that makes them fall out of the sky though.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

Sekiro is awesome. Although I must say that I've not played it in a while and am mortified of having to relearn everything after a stint in DS2. The games just couldn't be any more different gameplay vise and yet are so subtly the same that you can easily mix your skills up and die as a result. Love them both though.

 

[Birdjaguar]

@yung.carl.jung I was talking about sekiro

 

[Ajidica]

I've been using the crossbow but I can never seem to hit the sirens. I didn't realize about aard though.

During one of the Skellige quests I got a horn that makes them fall out of the sky though.

If you are within range the crossbow should auto-lock onto enemies.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

If you are within range the crossbow should auto-lock onto enemies.

In my case the sirens move so fast that by the time the bolt reaches where they were they're half a mile away. I tried aiming a little ahead of them but then they spin around like crazy.

I've had some luck with the....I think it's called split bolts, but then I keep running out and have to go find a blacksmith to make more.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

@yung.carl.jung I was talking about sekiro

the basic rundown:

you are wolf, a shinobi (it just means ninja I think). you're trying to save some divine kid, but get your ass handled to you and you arm cut off in the first 2 minutes of the game. some weird old buddha-carving freak gives you a prosthetic arm, which you can give all kinds of cool functions.

the basic gameplay is always the same: discover new areas, activate waypoints, fight enemies (even regular enemies are incredibly strong in this game) and engage bosses. what really makes this game is the circular, in-depth level design which opens myriads of opportunities, and the insanely detailed boss fights.

sekiro looks like a pretty bog-standard fighting game with RPG elements. but it's not. it's actually more of a rhythm-dance or bullet hell game with some slight fighting and RPG fluff. the crux of the bossfights is to really get a feel for their attack animations, their "dance". every boss is wildly different, some attacks are there just to throw you out of sync, the game is incredibly hard and requires freakishly fast reaction times.

what makes the fights incredibly cathartic is that they're actually purely skill based. basically, both you and the enemies have health and posture. every time you, or they, block or take damage, their posture meter goes up. if nothing happens it goes down very quickly. once an enemies posture meter is full, you can execute a deathblow on them. the way this works is that first you chip away on your opponents health, then you disregard health and try to break them.

if you "deflect" (a perfectly timed block) an enemy attack, then you don't take damage, nor posture damage and they do. this means that blocking is always suboptimal and deflecting is always superior. almost any attack can be deflected, even arrows and guns.. if you're fast enough. this means it's theoretically possible to go through this game without even taking damage once.

due to the fact that enemy posture recovers very fast, the player gets punished heavily for stalling and playing defensively. if you're not being aggressive, you've already lost before the fight even started. the only way to win is to completely subjugate your enemy with relentless attacks and perfect deflecting. in practice, this means that after you find out a bosses rhythm it's now YOU who is the aggressor, and the actual BOSS is trying to defend against you. you're disrupting their combos, abusing their recovery animations, etc. this constant playing with fire, the proactive mentality, it just gets me incredibly hyped. the focus on concentration, patience and repetition is something I really appreciate. most games don't do that anymore, they mostly revolve around instant gratification. this is by far the most rewarding single player game I've ever played. when the choreography really hits and you get into your flow it's like a different state of mind.

all the other elements.. skill progression, level system, the prosthetic, the items.. they're really nice and well done, but they don't really make or break the game. sekiro is a game about rhythm and dedication. if you don't really like that no amount of RPG elements will save the game for you.

 

[Birdjaguar]

@yung.carl.jung thanks very much. I may be too old for such a game if it is all about reaction time and precision. Is it mouse or keyboard driven? Both?

 

[MaryKB]

Does anyone know of any fun browser-based games, that aren't really competitive or will take up much of your time? Something neat you can sort of play for a few minutes here and there, while doing other things?

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

Does anyone know of any fun browser-based games, that aren't really competitive or will take up much of your time? Something neat you can sort of play for a few minutes here and there, while doing other things?

https://orteil.dashnet.org/cookieclicker/

though "won't take up much of your time" might be a little subjective

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Does anyone know of any fun browser-based games, that aren't really competitive or will take up much of your time? Something neat you can sort of play for a few minutes here and there, while doing other things?

A Firelit Room / A Dark Room is pretty neat

 

[yung.carl.jung]

@yung.carl.jung thanks very much. I may be too old for such a game if it is all about reaction time and precision. Is it mouse or keyboard driven? Both?

it's a controller oriented game imo. some people have successfully played it with mouse, but it's not my style. playing sekiro with mouse and wasd is akin to playing ego shooters with a controller. completely disgusting.

Does anyone know of any fun browser-based games, that aren't really competitive or will take up much of your time? Something neat you can sort of play for a few minutes here and there, while doing other things?

swarm sim of course

 

[Birdjaguar]

it's a controller oriented game imo. some people have successfully played it with mouse, but it's not my style. playing sekiro with mouse and wasd is akin to playing ego shooters with a controller. completely disgusting.

I agree. I cannot play wasd games well and don't enjoy them. I don't have a controller and never have played with one at all. A mouse with keyboard assists (like POE & Skyrim) is my go to style. Your news tells me to skip the game.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

I actually looked into getting a controller because of my hand tremours making it difficult to use a mouse sometimes. I don't remember why I decided against it though.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I actually looked into getting a controller because of my hand tremours making it difficult to use a mouse sometimes. I don't remember why I decided against it though.

Because they are even worse with hand tremors than a mouse is? That's my guess. I have given up my beloved track ball because it was just aggravating my wrist/hand too much to keep ignoring.