What would be a good response to the Paris attacks?

[aelf]

Since the other thread is an RD thread meant to focus only on the incident itself, this is a thread where you can discuss the political implications of the attack and of contemporary terrorism as a whole.

To start off, what do you think is a good national or collective response to the attacks? A poll has been included. I meant to include a poll, but somehow it didn't work, so here are some options:

1) Close borders to immigrants and refugees from Africa and the Middle East.
2) Harangue Muslims to "reform Islam"
3) Step up military operations against ISIS but not try to occupy territory
4) Full invasion of Syria to destroy ISIS
5) Increase surveillance and security, including monitoring civilian communications in order to more effectively prevent future attacks
6) Increase security measures without infringing on privacy
7) Expel the Jews and MoriscosMuslims from the West
8) Nothing much; don't let the terrorists win
9) Muhammad was a peadophile and the Nazis were left-wing

Feel free to select all that apply.

 

[BvBPL]

A good response to the attacks is to give to the French Red Cross and to give blood locally.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Since the other thread is an RD thread meant to focus only on the incident itself, this is a thread where you can discuss the political implications of the attack and of contemporary terrorism as a whole.

To start off, what do you think is a good national or collective response to the attacks? A poll has been included. I meant to include a poll, but somehow it didn't work, so here are some options:

1) Close borders to immigrants and refugees from Africa and the Middle East.
2) Harangue Muslims to "reform Islam"
3) Step up military operations against ISIS but not try to occupy territory
4) Full invasion of Syria to destroy ISIS
5) Increase surveillance and security, including monitoring civilian communications in order to more effectively prevent future attacks
6) Increase security measures without infringing on privacy
7) Expel the Jews and MoriscosMuslims from the West
8) Nothing much; don't let the terrorists win
9) Muhammad was a peadophile and the Nazis were left-wing

Feel free to select all that apply.

10) nuke mecca.

 

[Lillefix]

10) nuke mecca.

Or you can do what they try to do in one of the worst books I've ever read: Switch the stone in Meccah with an extremely radioactive meteorite so that all those Muslims kissing the stone develop cancer.

 

[Camikaze]

Moderator Action: A forewarning that the expression of certain opinions (such as 7, 9 & 10 above) is inappropriate for this site. Please keep discussion within the bounds of what's acceptable for this site.

 

[Tahuti]

1. Censor information about future attacks: Terrorism is about fear and media spreads this fear like a disease. It may sound callous, yet IS would have accomplished a lot less if only the Parisians had known about the attack. It's unlikely to be achieved anytime soon, though the abolition of TV journals and newspapers would render terrorism unviable.
2. Complete boycott and ermbargo of Saudi-Arabia, Qatar and the UAE, who are known to tolerate individuals and groups supporting IS.
3. Support Iran and Assad. Try to mediate between Iran and Israel to form a common bloc against the Arab Gulf States. Scare the Arab Gulf States into submission and identify potential opponents of theirs (= friends for us).
4. Require all religious leaders to swear loyalty to the state. Those who refuse will be labelled cultists and should be seen as no different than the likes of Charles Manson.
5. Encourage decentralisation: The fear factor is increased when a certain city forms the central nexus of a nation's politics and economics. This is certainly the case for Paris.

 

[dutchfire]

I'll take option 8 for 500, Alex.

 

[brennan]

11) Accept that this sort of thing is something we are going to have to live with for at least a few decades.
12) That stamping out an ideology is impossible, without addressing the underlying reasons for the success of that ideology (bad post-colonial and cold-war foreign policy decisions.)
13) Understand that bombing and killing Jihadists has a 14 year history of failure as a strategy (and probably significantly longer if we look at the situation prior to the 'war on terror.)

 

[Thedrin]

Protect / maintain / nurture the grey zone.

I've no idea what specific source introduced me to the term "grey zone" in the last 30 hours, other than reading about the Paris attacks. By it I mean the very broad political spectrum whose occupants include (but probably aren't limited to)
a) non Muslim who do not view Muslims and/or refugees as the enemy.
b) Muslim who are opposed to ISIS's goals.
As more Westerners start to support policies that discriminate against all Muslims, and as more Muslims begin to support ISIS over the west, ISIS's power grows.

I'm also unsure about how I can best do this.

 

[useless]

Alternatively realise the attackers are insane extremists who no more represent Islam than the terrorists in Northern Ireland represent Catholicism or Protestantism.

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

I'll take 5.) lite: investigate the planning and execution of the attacks, use said information for future procedures, maybe some extra funding for law enforcement, surveillance by coordinating with Muslim community leaders to identify troubled youth and give them a reason to live in France.

I don't know why anyone would think there's nothing to be done.

 

[Kyriakos]

13. Blood, for the blood god.
14. ...

...

x. Profit.

And a more serious answer: Nothing much will change- for the better, anyway. Level of public debate is abysmal, despite mass rallies against oligarchic and other anti-citizen behaviour are more common nowdays.
Optimal reaction would be to try to make societies better, and currently there is no ability to do much there without a lot of change which cannot occur in non-chaotic manner.

 

[Ryika]

Sacrifice a few lambs and hope for the best?

Given that what these terrorists want is a response the best response would probably be silent mourning of the dead, followed by an open and honest debate about what actions can be taken to slowly but surely fix the mess the world is in right now. Of course we all know that is not going to happen, we see and will continue to see reactionary responses that will only make things worse.

So... yeah, I'll stick with sacrificing some lambs.

 

[Kyriakos]

^Let's not forget so fast that it is not known who organised this. Just cause media scream 'Isis' doesn't mean crap, frankly. Same story as with Al-Qaeda.

 

[JohnRM]

To start off, what do you think is a good national or collective response to the attacks

(1) Close the borders immediately and permanently. Allow only French nationals and other select individuals cross the border, such as Germans or others who may live and work on different sides of the border for the immediate future.

(2) Establish a massive surveillance program to track the movements, habits, and activities of the Muslim communities in France. Once it is shown that there are no organized terrorist activities among the individual communities, end most surveillance activities on said communities. Strike at terror cells and support structures within the country. Extract information that will lead to further arrests and elimination of terror cells.

(3) Declare war on ISIS. Place the military on the highest alert level and begin to raise the army from its current level of just over 100,000 to some 300,000 troops. Prepare the navy and air force for deployments. Invoke Article 5 of NATO and coordinate with the Allies. Send a foreign minister to the embassies of Russia, Jordan, and Iraq. Strike a deal with Russia for their cooperation or passivity; consult with Jordan out of respect; and strike a deal with Iraq to offer to eliminate ISIS in Iraq in exchange for their agreement to acquiesce to certain requirements and a long-term presence of Allied forces.

(4) Establish some form of dedicated outreach program between the government and Muslim entities to enlist moderate community members in voluntary activities to keep an ear and an eye out for suspicious activity and to fund activities that will decrease the likelihood of resident Muslims from being recruited as terrorists.

(5) Given the cooperation of Turkey and the other Allies, conduct landings on the Mediterranean Coast and invade Syria from the northern border with Turkey. Capture Aleppo and Damascus. Move east and occupy the remainder of the country. Strip the land of weapons and explosives. Kill terrorists.

(6) Prepare and execute a long occupation and military governorship of Syria under a commission composed of the Allies and possibly Russia, depending on what arrangement is made with them. Secure the eastern border with Iraq. Prepare for the return of Syrian refugees from abroad, particularly France.

(7) Negotiate and enact a Marshall Plan to rebuild Syria. Prepare some benchmarks that Syria will be required to meet prior to regaining its independence and establishing its own national government. Allow local governments to be established where possible in stable, moderate areas. When the time is right and Syria has developed a local democratic tradition across the country, permit democratic elections on the national level. Require the new government to establish a constitution that protects human rights and provides the legal framework for good, stable governance; recognize the State of Israel (in exchange for the return of the Golan Heights); and commit to a status-of-forces agreement that allows Allied forces to remain in the country for another 50 years.

 

[abradley]

Make being a member of ISIS a death sentence using special ops.

Back the people who want to fight terrorists, Jordan and the Kurds asked for arms sometime ago, heard they weren't forth coming.

Don't commit US/European troops except for special ops and trainers.

ISIS needs victories for recruits, if they start losing, no recruits.

Cut off their money, they're a state, states need money.

 

[brennan]

ISIS at some point was just another terrorist jihadist organisation. Thinking that now the jihadists have a de-facto state that a reckoning with that geopolitical entity will solve the problem of Jihadism is hopelessly naive. ISIS doesn't even represent all Jihadists - indeed it is effectively at war with many other groups, including AQ offshoots.

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

I suppose their anthem does say "Aux armes, citoyens"...

 

[JohnRM]

ISIS at some point was just another terrorist jihadist organisation. Thinking that now the jihadists have a de-facto state that a reckoning with that geopolitical entity will solve the problem of Jihadism is hopelessly naive. ISIS doesn't even represent all Jihadists - indeed it is effectively at war with many other groups, including AQ offshoots.

Thus why the occupation of Syria has to be followed up with the occupation of other trouble spots, as well.

 

[brennan]

Like Iraq and Afghanistan you mean? Have you been living under a rock since 2001 or something, we've tried that already, it didn't work.

We've tried bombing, sending in special forces, invading, supporting proxies... none of this stuff works, in fact it contributed to getting us where we are right now.. and people want to do it all over???