What would you ask a person who knew everything?

[Borachio]

^ This is pretty much it.

The conundrum "How can God make an object too big for him to move?" was first introduced to me when I was 7 by my brother who is 3 yrs older. It plagued me for years. And I owe the answer "Well, of course he can - he's omnipotent." to Billy Graham.

The answer delights me by its elegant simplicity.

Omnipotence is the top trump.

(You might of course come up with a more philosophical reasoned discourse on why this is or isn't valid; but, you see, I wanted a 7 year old's answer to a 10 year old's question - and this does very nicely.)

To say an omnipotent being cannot do such and such (logical or not) is of course to say the being is no longer omnipotent.

 

[Souron]

Been a while for me, but isn't time a part of the characteristics of one universe? While another universe may not have that characteristic?

So what I'm asking is, can this universe, with the occurrence of time be caused by another universe (like it happens in the membrane theory) where time does not exist?

I'm asking out of ignorance. I can see how a membrane collision causes enormous amounts of energy which can be converted to matter, but I'm not sure whether such an equation exists for time as well.

Strictly speaking, another universe cannot cause our universe, because that would make it part of our universe.

According to contemporary theories, time is a dimension, like space, and it's hard to imagine something that could cause another spacial dimension to exist. However, unlike space, time has a direction. The direction of time is tied to the effusion of entropy, essentially chaos. That is, over time, things necessarily get less ordered, and more uniform, eventually settling down to a uniform state. Our own brain contributes to this process, which may explain why we only remember the past.

Some scientist posit that this isn't a property of time, but rather a consequence of the universe being so imbalanced. This would mean that a spontaneous "Big Bang" would actually create (at least) two arrows of time. One that's consistent with what we perceive, and one for a time that we perceive as before the Big Bang, where time flows backwards.

Brane theory posits that a p-brane collision could be such a spontaneous event; brane collisions would create an imbalance of energy with pockets of higher and lower energy. Now from my understanding of brane theory, this energy would be local to the branes colliding, so the universe as we perceive it is local the brane that we apparently reside on.

All this conjecture stems from the fact that there is no apparent reason for time to flow forwards, and so it's argued that it doesn't. Believing in this idea is contingent on one's interpretation of Occam's Razor, and on the existence of other phenomena the brane theory, or an alternate similar theory, may explain.

 

[Souron]

Yes, that might be so, but since God created the universe God could create the Universe so that God could do it.
The problem is this; if God is beyond/before everything, then God is before logic. If we then claim God is logic, then we have claimed God is limited, because there is something beyond God's reach, namely the illogical.

Or you could just define omnipotence as still being constrained by logic. Sure that's a weaker God, but it's still a very powerful one. And as far as Judaic religion is concerned, who's to say that's not what the word meant back then?

 

[AlpsStranger]

The conundrum "How can God make an object too big for him to move?" was first introduced to me when I was 7 by my brother who is 3 yrs older. It plagued me for years.

I've got a better and more vexing one.

How does an omniscient being know that it is omniscient?

 

[Souron]

I've got a better and more vexing one.

How does an omniscient being know that it is omniscient?

I like it. Though I'd suggest the wording: How can a being know if it is omniscient?

 

[GhostWriter16]

Because if he were really omnipotent, he could find out

 

[Traitorfish]

Yes, that might be so, but since God created the universe God could create the Universe so that God could do it.
The problem is this; if God is beyond/before everything, then God is before logic. If we then claim God is logic, then we have claimed God is limited, because there is something beyond God's reach, namely the illogical.

I'm not so sure. "The illogical" doesn't actually exist, it's a hypothetical which humans developed to help them understand the logical, so there's no reason to assume that it is encompassed by the infinite.

The conundrum "How can God make an object too big for him to move?" was first introduced to me when I was 7 by my brother who is 3 yrs older. It plagued me for years. And I owe the answer "Well, of course he can - he's omnipotent." to Billy Graham.

The answer delights me by its elegant simplicity.

Omnipotence is the top trump.

That doesn't actually work, though, beause if he wasn't able to lift the rock, he wouldn't be omnipotent.

 

[Global Skeptic]

Or you could just define omnipotence as still being constrained by logic. Sure that's a weaker God, but it's still a very powerful one. And as far as Judaic religion is concerned, who's to say that's not what the word meant back then?

No, because if illogical is before/beyond/outside God, then God can't have created everything.

 

[Flying Pig]

That is actually a very interesting question... omniscience I suppose would require knowledge beyond observation. Anyone seen Bruce Almighty where Jim Carrey tempts the Lord?

 

[Global Skeptic]

I'm not so sure. "The illogical" doesn't actually exist, it's a hypothetical which humans developed to help them understand the logical, so there's no reason to assume that it is encompassed by the infinite.

You don't know that when it comes to God, because God created existence, but if there is something God can't create, then there is a restraint on God; i.e. God is not all powerful.

 

[Borachio]

That doesn't actually work, though, beause if he wasn't able to lift the rock, he wouldn't be omnipotent.

But, you see, it does work.

The rock thing just asks 'Can an omnipotent being do something he is unable to do?'.

It is an absurd paradoxical question and the easy, elegant way out is to place primacy on omnipotence.

 

[Traitorfish]

You don't know that when it comes to God, because God created existence, but if there is something God can't create, then there is a restraint on God; i.e. God is not all powerful.

I think that you're confusing ontology with grammar. "The illogical" is, again, a hypothetical, it isn't something which comes within the terms of that which may exist. Just because there exists the noun "illogical" doesn't mean that it corresponds to anything outside of itself.

But, you see, it does work.

The rock thing just asks 'Can an omnipotent being do something he is unable to do?'.

It is an absurd paradoxical question and the easy, elegant way out is to place primacy on omnipotence.

Refusing to answer the question is not a "way out".

 

[Souron]

No, because if illogical is before/beyond/outside God, then God can't have created everything.

Logic isn't a thing.

 

[Souron]

Because if he were really omnipotent, he could find out

How? What test could he do to prove his omniscience?

 

[Borachio]

Refusing to answer the question is not a "way out".

And refusing to read a sentence is no way to conduct a debate.

But never mind. I leave the last word to you.

Oh yes and here's your fav similie:



enjoy.

 

[Global Skeptic]

I think that you're confusing ontology with grammar. "The illogical" is, again, a hypothetical, it isn't something which comes within the terms of that which may exist. Just because there exists the noun "illogical" doesn't mean that it corresponds to anything outside of itself.

Logic isn't a thing.

So the word thing corresponds to what???

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Jesus wasn't that vengeful But in all seriousness, the insinuation was that, since Earth is less than 10,000 years old, I can't go back 1 million

Earth is less than 10,000 years old? That'll be news to the original Native North Americans, who came over from Asia via the Bering Land Bridge, then. Gee, since they were the ancestors of the North American Indians, I wonder where the Indians came from?

Or the paleontologists who just found another dinosaur fossil in Drumheller, Alberta. You know, dinosaurs that lived tens of MILLIONS of years ago?

 

[Old Hippy]

How? What test could he do to prove his omniscience?

well he could, foresee that his book would be interpreted differently by people... all proclaiming their view was the only correct view of what he wanted and been more consistent about what he actually wanted us to do/believe/preach.... whoops, sorry, just realised I am stating the view for him not being omniscience...

 

[Global Skeptic]

P1: God created the universe and how it works.
P2: God is not illogical
P3: Genesis 1 and 2
P4: Swyer syndrome
Therefore: ?

 

[Souron]

So the word thing corresponds to what???

Matter, energy, nature, Creation.

Logic does not exist in the same sense that those things exist. For one thing, logic is timeless.